In my estimation there are many differences. When I used to ask this question, some would say "nothing really, just management stuff". Wow was I in for a learning curve in the BSN program.
I don't understand why there aren't real, substantive answers as to why it seems that more hospitals and nursing in general are moving to all BSN status as a minimum.
First, allow me to just say that there are some really GREAT ASNs out there. Their experience, caring and thoughtful nursing skill sets are invaluable. I know of quite a few myself whom I would have care for me or any of my loved ones, due to the fact I know they care and are extremely good at what they do. Secondly, the field of nursing is a great, well respected career path. Any degree in Nursing is indeed a good choice, but why not make a great choice? There are many career paths within the field of nursing and different areas of nursing one can follow or get into. The major two types are the ASN and the BSN. How does it differ from a nurse who has an associate degree in nursing? Are there any differences other than being in school a little longer? Is the pay different? Is it only for a "managers job?".
The associate degree nurse is commonly called the "associate of science in nursing" or ASN degree nurse. An associate degree nurse has commonly completed approximately two years of nursing school training. However before entering any nursing program the student must have completed the prerequisites in order to be accepted into that program. Many times this entails having completed one to two years of education in order to meet the requirements for nursing school. Many students finish much more quickly but not without, arguably, hard work and a lot of time and energy. The latter being true for nursing education in general. ASN nurses take courses in, most obviously, nursing. However, the curriculum includes many other facets of learning. ASNs take courses in psychology, nutrition, microbiology, chemistry, physiology as well as social and behavioral sciences. One thing all nursing schools and curriculums have in common are hours of supervised clinical experience. While the course is technically only two years long, many students, young and old alike say it's one of the toughest programs they have ever encountered.
The baccalaureate in nursing program adds to the educational development of the registered nurse by including several other aspects of nursing. Baccalaureate or commonly called "bachelor" nursing programs contain all of the course work taught in ASN and diploma programs plus a more in-depth treatment of the physical and social sciences, research in the field of nursing, public and community health, nursing management and supervising, as well as the humanities. The additional coursework can continue to enhance the nursing student's professional development It also prepares the new nurse for a broader scope of practice, and provides the nursing student, whether already an ASN or not with a better understanding of the economic, political, cultural, and social issues that affect a patient and influence health care delivery. Throughout the last decade, policymakers and nursing practice leaders have recognized that education makes a difference. One of the major differences is in the area of "people". That is to say, BSNs' learn more on how to deal with people and the dynamics of the people in the workplace as well as effective management and productivity of those people. Also, registered nurses with a BSN possess a substantial chance for advancing their careers. As an example, a bachelor's in nursing degree is needed for acceptance into a master's nursing program, which could result in a career in healthcare administration, health services, or on to specialty nursing roles like nurse anesthetist, nurse practitioner or clinical nurse leader. A BSN is also favored and frequently necessitated for military and public health nursing and other more specialized jobs.
Now, with that said. Education is a great way to become enlightened on even more nursing information and for creation of change in the profession. All one has to do is look up Linda Aiken, RN and the information from her years of research on nursing will enlighten and brighten ones' thoughts on this matter -of magnet hospitals and/or facilities. Dr. Aiken and colleagues found (in over a decade of research) that hospitals that employed a higher percentile of BSNs had lower surgical patient mortality rates than hospitals that staffed with fewer BSNs (Hanink, 2014). The study was done in 2003 and other studies are continuing even now. All point to a need in a BSN. The study in 2003 was done on 168 hospitals. In addition, hospitals with RNs holding a bachelor's degree or higher ranged from 0% to 77% across the hospitals. a 10% increase in the proportion of nurses holding a bachelor's degree was associated with a 5% decrease in both the likelihood of patients dying within 30 days of admission and the odds of failure to rescue (JAMA, 2003). I would strongly recommend that any and all nurses read Dr. Aikens' research paper on this. It can be found in the link below.
Everywhere nurses look, other professions are taking on additional responsibilities, given more credibility and even more respect (PTs, OTs, Pharmacists, RTs etc) while nurses are seen as the pill pushers, IV starters etc. We need to educate ourselves and be proactive in all areas of patient care. That would include management, and lobbying congress for better nurse ratios as well.
On a personal note, if you are someone in nursing school or are considering nursing. Consider going for the BSN. The ASN is good if you are considering working and THEN going for your BSN, however as most nurses will tell you. It's hard to stop then start again, and sometimes expensive. Just keep going. Don't stop.
I like to write as you can tell. So what do you think?
It's 60 extra credit hours with to me a bunch of fluff. But it is geared toward a charge nurse position.
I want to be a nurse and care for people.
Until the NCLEX is different and they pay a BSN more money you won't convince me that even management at the hospital believes it either.
And just because I'm a student doesn't mean I'm not educated on this.
You are a student so you have never worked as a nurse. Are you sure that you have the experience necessary to determine what is "fluff" without having ever worked a day at the bedside?
When you say being a charge nurse isn't what you want to do, do you mean being in management? Charge nurses are typically floor nurses and often the task rotates through experienced floor nurses.
Research allows nurses to be actively involved in evidence based practice, conduct quality improvement projects, clinical research, etc. It is vital to bedside practice. Management/leadership classes provide a foundation for being a nursing leader, this doesn't always mean in a manger role. Leadership is used on a daily basis.
You mention you want to take care of people as your ultimate goal. Then wouldn't you also want to ensure you have the best possible outcomes in their care? Have you ever read the existing research on the topic in your extensive researching of programs?
Sure you can be educated on a topic as a student, but you also lack perspective. You are laser focused on your own agenda. After you join the nursing ranks and gain some experience perhaps you will start to consider the issue from the perspective of the profession. Or from a patient's perspective.
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
Heathermaizey said:
I didn't say those research and nursing management classes aren't crucial. They are if you want to be a nurse manager or DON.
I completely disagree and would not want to work with any nurse (nor would I want to HIRE any nurse) who didn't think a keen understanding of nursing research wasn't important at the bedside.
Those classes, which you think are only relevant if you're planning on being a manager, are required for an ENTRY LEVEL nursing degree (BSN). So clearly, institutions that decide the curriculum for baccalaureate education, also feel that this is important education for entry level nurses.
You are a student so you have never worked as a nurse. Are you sure that you have the experience necessary to determine what is "fluff" without having ever worked a day at the bedside?
When you say being a charge nurse isn't what you want to do, do you mean being in management? Charge nurses are typically floor nurses and often the task rotates through experienced floor nurses.
Research allows nurses to be actively involved in evidence based practice, conduct quality improvement projects, clinical research, etc. It is vital to bedside practice. Management/leadership classes provide a foundation for being a nursing leader, this doesn't always mean in a manger role. Leadership is used on a daily basis.
You mention you want to take care of people as your ultimate goal. Then wouldn't you also want to ensure you have the best possible outcomes in their care? Have you ever read the existing research on the topic in your extensive researching of programs?
Sure you can be educated on a topic as a student, but you also lack perspective. You are laser focused on your own agenda. After you join the nursing ranks and gain some experience perhaps you will start to consider the issue from the perspective of the profession. Or from a patient's perspective.
Best of luck.
Sent from my iPhone.
I'm not wanting to argue with you at all. I always have respected your opinion in other threads, as I do here. We have a difference of opinion here which I respect. I do understand the research aspect, although I honestly don't think it is necessary. I am 38 years old and have worn many different hats in my life. So yes, I do have my own agenda. I needed to figure out how I could get to reach my goals the fastest. I'm divorced and living off part of my settlement. After working with my financial advisor I could go about 3.5 years. Enough time to get my degree and pass my licensing test. Those are my goals and why I stated its a personal decision.
Yes, I have read the articles on better outcomes with BSNs. Like I stated earlier I have thoroughly researched this topic. I don't agree with all of that article. But my reasons for disagreement are a whole other topic. Again, I stated the path of education is a personal one.
My whole reason for responding here was the fact the OP says don't get me wrong I know a few great ASN nurses. Like our training is inferior but she knows a couple of good ones. Here where I live, ASN nurses get more clinical hours. My clinicals are at the same exact facilities as I encountered this past semester. We all did the same things.
I do have perspective. I'm a little older than most and have lots of life experience. My life experience has served me well. Please go back and read my whole first post. I feel like you guys took certain sentences and honed in on them and didn't really read the whole thing. Just because I'm a student doesn't mean I don't know what it's all about and don't understand what each job is and what it's about.
I completely disagree and would not want to work with any nurse (nor would I want to HIRE any nurse) who didn't think a keen understanding of nursing research wasn't important at the bedside.
Those classes, which you think are only relevant if you're planning on being a manager, are required for an ENTRY LEVEL nursing degree (BSN). So clearly, institutions that decide the curriculum for baccalaureate education, also feel that this is important education for entry level nurses.
And that is fine that you feel that way, but I have to respectfully disagree. I have done lots of hiring and firing in my day. I spent way too many years in management positions. I won't ever do that again. And if your hospital only hires BSN nurses that is great. That is up to the hospital. But I did my research in MY area. They hire ASN nurses. That is specifically why I tell people to see what they hire in your area as I stated in my very first post. I live in a rural area. My next door neighbor raises horses! So yes, I'm in the country. There's a difference where I live. I'm not looking to go to the city at this time. I'm raising a little boy and his school is here.
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
Heathermaizey said:
And that is fine that you feel that way, but I have to respectfully disagree. I have done lots of hiring and firing in my day. I spent way too many years in management positions. I won't ever do that again. And if your hospital only hires BSN nurses that is great. That is up to the hospital. But I did my research in MY area. They hire ASN nurses. That is specifically why I tell people to see what they hire in your area as I stated in my very first post. I live in a rural area. My next door neighbor raises horses! So yes, I'm in the country. There's a difference where I live. I'm not looking to go to the city at this time. I'm raising a little boy and his school is here.
And that's fine, but that has nothing to do with the statement that a knowledge of nursing research and leadership is only valuable if you're going to be a manager. That is SO not true. Research, evidence based practice and leadership is used EVERY SINGLE DAY by a bedside nurse. Or at least, it is if she's a good nurse.
If you don't have a desire to get a BSN, that's fine. I really don't care. But to say the knowledge gained in a BSN program is only useful if you're going into management is completely false, as evidenced by all the BSN-prepared new grads out there who are using their education every single day.
And that's fine, but that has nothing to do with the statement that a knowledge of nursing research and leadership is only valuable if you're going to be a manager. That is SO not true. Research, evidence based practice and leadership is used EVERY SINGLE DAY by a bedside nurse. Or at least, it is if she's a good nurse.
If you don't have a desire to get a BSN, that's fine. I really don't care. But to say the knowledge gained in a BSN program is only useful if you're going into management is completely false, as evidenced by all the BSN-prepared new grads out there who are using their education every single day.
That is not what I am saying. What I am saying is a BSN trained nurse has pretty much the same education as an ASN nurse. I think BSN nurses are great people. They earned their degree. I do not think an ASN trained nurse is inferior. I think the BSN trained nurse has a few more prereqs under their belt and some additional theory classes in research and leadership. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I think everyone should take a leadership class in their life. I took some back in my days of management. They teach you how to deal with differing types of personalities and how to manage them. What I did state and this is my experience not anyone else's is that I am getting more clinical hours than local BSN programs which is something I wanted for MY career. You are trying to get me into a debate that I think is useless and silly because I do not share your opinion. I thought the hands on experience would benefit me over the extra theory at this time. At no point have I said I think a BSN is inferior or that I will never get one. At this moment and time in my life the ASN made sense to ME and only me, as it is a personal decision. I do not like other people trying to force their opinion on me, or that I am wrong for thinking the way I do.
If I had it all to do over again and I was 18 just out of high school, I would choose a different path. At 38, now today 39, I had to do what's best for me and my son. Like I stated earlier I would be a RN either way and make the same money so this is what makes sense. The OP was insinuating the ASN degree was inferior, which it most certainly is not. There is absolutely nothing more I can say to that. I'm trying to stay on topic here.
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
I am not claiming or debating that you think a BSN education is inferior or an ASN education is superior or any of the things you wrote in your last post that you THINK I'm debating you. The only thing I take issue with is the idea that management and research courses are only valuable if you're planning to be a nurse manager, which is essentially what you said here:
Quote
I didn't say those research and nursing management classes aren't crucial. They are if you want to be a nurse manager or DON.
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
Nurse-Prestige said:
Really? so those classes are not important and crucial?
Sorry, but in reality, many and many more magnet hospitals are Not seen it as "Thats it". And that is why they only hire BSN nurses.
I don't think Hospitals are keen on waiting for the state bills to pass, even though the fact there are state bills on BSN being the minimal requirement for entry level into nursing is by itself VERY important.
I'm not here to argue about this any more because I believe that as a practical matter you need a BSN to be competitive in the job market. The reason why there are no "BSN required" laws is largely because hospital and long-term care lobbyists blocked the legislation. In some cases they lobbied successfully to have bills passed that would specifically deny state nursing boards the ability to unilaterally change education requirements.
Their view is strictly pragmatic and they don't want their hands tied should an RN shortage return at some point.
I'm not here to argue about this any more because I believe that as a practical matter you need a BSN to be competitive in the job market. The reason why there are no "BSN required" laws is largely because hospital and long-term care lobbyists blocked the legislation. In some cases they lobbied successfully to have bills passed that would specifically deny state nursing boards the ability to unilaterally change education requirements.
Their view is strictly pragmatic and they don't want their hands tied should an RN shortage return at some point.
Is it really because healthcare industry lobbyists have talked legislatures out of pursuing something they are interested in pursuing, or because no one has convinced state legislators that a change is indicated and necessary? The vast majority of states are not even discussing the issue, as far as I know, and, in the few states in which it's being discussed, the proposals don't seem to be going anywhere. Do you have other information?
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
elkpark said:
Is it really because healthcare industry lobbyists have talked legislatures out of pursuing something they are interested in pursuing, or because no one has convinced state legislators that a change is indicated and necessary? The vast majority of states are not even discussing the issue, as far as I know, and, in the few states in which it's being discussed, the proposals don't seem to be going anywhere. Do you have other information?
You're right. I should have been more clear. I didn't intend to imply that all states have considered the legislation.
BostonFNP, APRN
2 Articles; 5,584 Posts
You are a student so you have never worked as a nurse. Are you sure that you have the experience necessary to determine what is "fluff" without having ever worked a day at the bedside?
When you say being a charge nurse isn't what you want to do, do you mean being in management? Charge nurses are typically floor nurses and often the task rotates through experienced floor nurses.
Research allows nurses to be actively involved in evidence based practice, conduct quality improvement projects, clinical research, etc. It is vital to bedside practice. Management/leadership classes provide a foundation for being a nursing leader, this doesn't always mean in a manger role. Leadership is used on a daily basis.
You mention you want to take care of people as your ultimate goal. Then wouldn't you also want to ensure you have the best possible outcomes in their care? Have you ever read the existing research on the topic in your extensive researching of programs?
Sure you can be educated on a topic as a student, but you also lack perspective. You are laser focused on your own agenda. After you join the nursing ranks and gain some experience perhaps you will start to consider the issue from the perspective of the profession. Or from a patient's perspective.
Best of luck.
Sent from my iPhone.