The continuing saga of nurses vs. EMTs...

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I know this topic has been hashed and rehashed until everyone is probably sick of it, but I had an encounter with an EMT yesterday that left me so mad I had trouble sleeping last night. I had a lady with chronic COPD and pulmonary fibrosis who was so sick she was messing allover herself and smearing it all over the place because she was too weak to get to the toilet, which is totally unusual for her. Her O2 sats were in the 70's to low 80's and you could hear coorifice wheezes before you even got into her room. I pulled out a breathing treatment to give while I called the doctor but in the meantime I had another COPD patient going down the tubes so I had to call for TWO transports to the ER. SO, in the midst of all this the Albuterol was left on my med cart. They got there pretty quick, and I was telling them about the lady, and one of the EMTs (with this smug-looking smirk on his face) says, "Can you tell me why she hasn't had a breathing treatment this morning?" I was totally caught off guard but I mentioned that at this point an Albuterol neb tx wasn't going to help this woman, she needed to get to the hospital because she obviously has pneumonia. He went on to argue that it would have helped and she needed an antibiotic ordered and to be given her breathing tx's instead of the ambulance...and he just kept running his mouth. They both rolled their eyes as they were rolling her out. Turns out they admitted this woman with bilateral pneumonia, put her on IV antibiotics and all that (we don't do IVs here).

Why do these guys feel the need to be confrontational and antagonsitic? Little Man Syndrome???

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Specializes in med/surg- sub-acute, LTC,ICU,.

I feel your pain. I had some idiot tell my patient "don't worry honey we'll take to the ER and then they will send you right back." I guess he thought he was funny! Patient was admitted to the ICU. Just brush it off!!

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I wonder if the EMTs are even aware that the pts described in the preceeding posts were in trouble and required admission. My bet is that the EMTs are totally unaware and their false stereotyping of the LTC staff is wrongly reinforced.

For neonatal transports my medical center routinely holds transport team conferences with the community providers, transporters, and the tertiary hospital staff. Cases are reviewed with the goal to improve care and smooth transition all the way through. Generally everyone leaves with a better understanding and hopefully, healthy respect for the other providers. I wonder if this might help in some of these settings?

The patients are facing enough challenges without their health care providers acting so disrespectfully to one another.

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I'm a BSN graduate from a foreign school. While waiting for my credentials to be verified, which would take awhile, I worked at a nursing home as a Certified Nursing Assistant and joined the local First Aid and Rescue Squad as a Certified EMT.

I don't like the idea of "Nurses versus EMTs". Nurses and EMTs are in one team. They should work together. Based on your statements, I can see you are having a not so good day. And maybe that EMT too had a not so nice sleep. You being the more educated person in the story has the capacity to control the situation and make it a bit less confrontational. Use the techniques in communication and ways to manage stress control emotions in which we were taught in the nursing school. The situation started when the EMT asked you "...Why hasn't she had her breathing treatment...?" Your answer to the question counts a lot to manage the situation. What do you think is the best response to avoid such incident to get worst?

I believe that in health care field, THERE IS NO LITTLE PEOPLE. Everybody plays an important role as a team to provide quality care and to ensure patient's survival.

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Specializes in ER, urgent care.

Don't discount the education that the EMT's have. Paramedics in our state have 2 year AS degree same as RN's. I agree the behavior wasn't professional and I think we don't understand each others jobs very well at all. Melissa EMT-P, RN

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Specializes in critical care, PACU.

recently my mom (who is also a nurse) had to call an ambulance because her stage IV esophageal cancer husband with hepatic dysfunction became acutely confused and tried to leave the room in the middle of the night. The responding EMS personnel didnt listen to dispatch and separated them, saying she wouldnt be able to ride because it was a "domestic dispute". Then on the ride over, he told my mom that they should be available for more acute cases and my step dad was wasting their time.

My mom used to work EMS prior to nursing and was an ED nurse and I felt so bad that my mom had to go through these dick personalities on top of everything else.

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Specializes in ER, urgent care.

It is unfortunate when people have bad experiences with EMS. Since I do both jobs I have an appreciation for both sides as do many on this board probably. There are bad medics, nurses and doctors, we've all had experience with some of them and we usually only recall the bad not the good. Melissa

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I agree that in this world there will always be a bad person and a good one. Not all EMTs are bad, not all nurses are good either. Instead of recalling and condemning the EMTs for the bad experiences, why not make a positive outcome from it. In every experience that are not good, aside from merely recalling it, you suggest solutions on how it can be avoided. Let us make it a learning experience. There are only few EMTs that are not good... Most are out there on the road ready to assist and respond in every emergency. EMTs and Nurses should respect and understand each other. We are on one team with the same goal: providing care to patients and doing our best for their survival.

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I agree that in this world there will always be a bad person and a good one. Not all EMTs are bad, not all nurses are good either. Instead of recalling and condemning the EMTs for the bad experiences, why not make a positive outcome from it. In every experience that are not good, aside from merely recalling it, you suggest solutions on how it can be avoided. Let us make it a learning experience. There are only few EMTs that are not good... Most are out there on the road ready to assist and respond in every emergency. EMTs and Nurses should respect and understand each other. We are on one team with the same goal: providing care to patients and doing our best for their survival.

I think I'll send him a friend request on facebook. :lol2:

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Specializes in Med/Surg, Ortho, ASC.

"

document.png Re: The continuing saga of nurses vs. EMTs...

I'm a BSN graduate from a foreign school. While waiting for my credentials to be verified, which would take awhile, I worked at a nursing home as a Certified Nursing Assistant and joined the local First Aid and Rescue Squad as a Certified EMT.

I don't like the idea of "Nurses versus EMTs". Nurses and EMTs are in one team. They should work together. Based on your statements, I can see you are having a not so good day. And maybe that EMT too had a not so nice sleep. You being the more educated person in the story has the capacity to control the situation and make it a bit less confrontational. Use the techniques in communication and ways to manage stress control emotions in which we were taught in the nursing school. The situation started when the EMT asked you "...Why hasn't she had her breathing treatment...?" Your answer to the question counts a lot to manage the situation. What do you think is the best response to avoid such incident to get worst?

I believe that in health care field, THERE IS NO LITTLE PEOPLE. Everybody plays an important role as a team to provide quality care and to ensure patient's survival. "

I find this answer to be quite naive and a little bit patronizing. I don't imagine that with 2 COPD'ers going down the tubes and EMT's who were wasting time asking provocative questions, the OP had time to humor the pretensions of the transporters.

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Specializes in PP, OR, med-surg,oncology, urodynamics.

I say this about everyone, RN's, LPN's, EMT's, CNA's, Scrub Tech's,Dialysis Tech's,and yes even Doctors, we are all needed, we're suppose to have one common goal, when we learn to RESPECT eachother's position things will go alot smoother!

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Here's my 2 cents:

When I first joined the military (years ago), I came in as a medic. My first assignment was in an emergency room at an Army hospital. Part of the criteria for working there, was to become certified in just about everything. I was certified as an EMT II (not sure of the equivalency now), CPR instructor, BTLS, ATLS, PALS...you name it, we had it.

Anyway, I worked with mostly males. And from MY experience, these guys really thought they were somehow more important than the rest of hospital workers. They would often make comments about the fact that we were first to care for the patient and made the most difference, we stabilized the patients and did all the "hard" work, we faced more life and death emergencies than other hospital staff, we had all these certifications that others didn't have, things of that nature. So, being the young 19 year old that I was (I'm 38 now BTW), I actually started believing this mentality.

My friends (who worked throughout the hospital) would often comment on how the soldiers in the ER thought they were the ****, walking around with their little walkie talkies (we drove ambulances), having our nose in the air, etc. LOL Back then, I didn't even realize that I came across that way, but I DID truly believe that I had more of an edge than those who worked in the clinics or on the floors. {Disclaimer: I do NOT feel that way now that I have matured and know better. I realize that it was pure ignorance on my part, as well as the people I worked with.}

Fast forward to a few years ago...I worked in TWO LTC facilities at different times. For both places, we often had to call for an ambulance for our patients. And 9 times out of 10, the EMTs who came were rude. They acted like we were wasting their time, didn't know what we were doing, and would often talk down to us. I am not talking on random occasions, where someone might have been having a bad day. It was almost always. We (nurses), dreaded having to deal with them. It was torture trying to bite our tongues, when condescending or indirect insults were thrown our way. I remember this one time where I was in the middle of giving report. The two guys who came for the patient never acknowledged me. They started walking away with the patient in the middle of my report, completely dismissing me.

Now I'm not saying that ALL EMTs think they are better than nurses. But based on my experiences, it would APPEAR that many times a lot of them DO think they are a bit more important than others in the healthcare field. Maybe the ones I have dealt with were just bad seeds, or maybe they felt as I did all those years ago. Who knows? But with so many nurses in different places feeling similar, it kind of makes you wonder.

Again, I have nothing against EMTs. I'm not trying to start a flaming war here. I'm just sharing my opinion and experience, and what could be a reason for the attitude of some. ;)

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