The Bullying Thread

This is a great thread. It's making me think about the good occasions as well as the bad ones, with a completely different perspective.

It makes me think, too. I'm thinking about doctors who are habitual bullies and those who "lose it" occaisionally. Like your surprise at the doctor who snapped at you about "still eating." Sounds like you were surprised because he hadn't behaved that way before. I am normally a really laid back and nice person. But there have been times I have snapped and said something stupid out of sheer frustration.

Then there are the doctors who everybody is afraid to call at night. The ones who we dread, who show up in the middle of report, say something snide right off the bat. You never know what kind of mood they'll be in. They seem to constantly want to keep everybody upset and trembling before them. I've only known a few of those. I consider that behavior to be bullying. It's more psychological bullying, but just as damaging.

I spoke to the orientee tonight and discovered that the Dr in question never did apologize. This is so unprofessional and upsetting not only to the nurse but to all of us nurses. I think the nurse ,as we all are, feels that if we say something or push the issue it will make our work life hell. I wish someone would say something to him though. I will keep all posted. Thank you all for your advice.

I spoke to the orientee tonight and discovered that the Dr in question never did apologize. This is so unprofessional and upsetting not only to the nurse but to all of us nurses. I think the nurse ,as we all are, feels that if we say something or push the issue it will make our work life hell. I wish someone would say something to him though. I will keep all posted. Thank you all for your advice.

Bullies who use the threat of escalation have won. What about a memo from the nursing staff to the immediate supervisor of this physician? This is a hostile work environment, and puts patients at risk. Your risk management team should also be advised of this particular physician's behavior.

Perhaps the doctor needs anger management or a psych eval. Or to get fired. Either way, there is power in numbers and if the nusing staff is upset and not working well, the hospital will face huge liability if this causes adverse outcomes for the patients.

This type of behavior is beyond fixing with an apology, IMHO. S/He needs serious boundary reminders.

Thanks for the advice. I suppose I knew you were right before I asked, but, honestly, I just don't feel that bad about it. I was sorely tempted to explain to Nurse B that the subtle message underlying the comments was that Nurse A wants me, and that, in fact, the subtle, underlying message when any woman says anything to me is that she wants me, but an even more demented side of me wishes I could just burst into tears on demand. But, crap, I suppose I ought to be mature about it. Shoot.

Just had to throw this in...

One of my fellow students really hated me.. so much so that he apparently said nasty things about me every time I was out of earshot....she's not smart (which I am), she's slow and inept in clinicals (which I wasn't), she's pasty (which I am, and I happen to look 23 instead of 33 'cuz I stayed out of the sun:chuckle), she always tries to change things (guilty of that, when said things are counterproductive or sexist), etc. he even harrassed me on these boards at one point- and said postings were written while he was at clinicals, on a hospital computer, sitting next to an instructor....but that's not the point.

I never did understand why this guy hated me so much- I always treated him with respect and professionalism, even though I knew he despised me and constantly said mean, vengeful things to the rest of the class about me. it was shockingly sophomoric, coming from someone in his late 30s. I just chalked it up to him hating me for being a bright, confident, outspoken woman.

during the last week of school, one of my classmates told me something that made the two years of this dude's indirect bullying totally worth it. he was reciting his litany of my shortcomings to her, and finally she said, 'man...the fact that you talk about her ALL THE TIME means only one of two things: either you're jealous of her, or you want to have sex with her. That's how I see it.' apparently, he was speechless, at least for the time it took her to walk away. :rotfl:

On a side note, this woman was one of the greatest people I've ever known.

great thread

Did your course also offer information on how to tactifully deal with a bully who also happens to be your supervisor??? Or does anyone else have info on how they have or would handle the situation?

HA! bully supervisors! Tell me about it! At the end of the day sometimes you have to ask yourself how much do you like your job? A bully supervisor can just ruin your whole life. RUN NOW!

Truly, it can be very hard to anything about this, as they will sabotage your efforts and isolate you from others. Sometimes a battle like that can cost you at a personal level, far more than it is worth. You must use good war tactics, and don't start the battle unless you are at least 3:1 the advantage! good luck!

How about a precepter for a dept. that puts you on orientation for weeks longer for things like not documenting an IV site already documented in pre-printed nursing notes. Threatening to report you to a supervisor every time you turned around for such offenses as using tape on the outside of the chart. For ridiculing you in front of other staff for using a report sheet "too much like a floor nurse" in

an ER setting. Acting as if You do not exist for weeks at a time even though your are the only two RN's on the floor...... This is the tame stuff....you should hear how the techs were treated by this "professional."

Hey there all! Finally decided to speak up. I was the object of bullying and mobbing at my last workplace and finally decided to leave, that nothing I did caused it or would relieve it. It was very emotionally harrowing for me (and I'm still trying to deal with the issues). I attempted to talk to her, change myself and talk with her supervisor. Nothing was effective, so I left, this person is still in her position of power and nothing has been done. I've been inmy area of nursing for 20 years and had never faced anything to this extent before. My suggestion is to talk with your feet, it's very scary starting out somewhere new but it will never get any better, esp if this person's higher ups don't or won't tackle the issue. There's a saying,"don't try to teach a pig to dance, you'll get dirty and the pig will be pissed off." There are better environments out there, I've been lucky, found 2 of them with very different mind sets in both units and I'm happy for the first time in 3 years. Best of luck to you, don't let this experience to lose yourself or your reason for becoming a nurse in the first place.

I've also taken a personal pledge not to talk about others with the rest of the crew and I WILL absolutely not stand for a manager to discuss someone behind his or her back!

One aspect I have found in my new nursing career is that being self possessed is a detriment. Alot of other industries respect confidence. It is healthy to have confidence. You can be vulnerable, learning professionally and have a positive self esteem however I find that this seems to intimidate. I believe this is due the general lack of empowerment within the profession. Bullies, simply bully due to envy/insecurity - in which case they need to project their inadequacies by targeting others. There is definately a pervasive tendency in nursing to criticise other nurses' work practice - even so subtly. I guess the people who subject themselves to doing so are desperately needing validation for their own practice or in someway need comfort in viewing their own practice as superior. Bullies really need to confront their own insecurities and if you are being bullied, perhaps use projection as your defence. Simply ask them why they are deciding to behave that way. This is quite a passive but confrontational way of getting them to see themselves. If a Dr has sworn at you for example - you could firmly say "I'd just like to ask you why you think it is necessary to swear at me?". If a colleague has been nasty about your weight or the way you walk, you could say "I'm just wondering why it is that you seem to find it funny to criticise me?" It is amazing how the bully after initially being defensive, backs down. Good luck!

One aspect I have found in my new nursing career is that being self possessed is a detriment. Alot of other industries respect confidence. It is healthy to have confidence. You can be vulnerable, learning professionally and have a positive self esteem however I find that this seems to intimidate. I believe this is due the general lack of empowerment within the profession. Bullies, simply bully due to envy/insecurity - in which case they need to project their inadequacies by targeting others. There is definately a pervasive tendency in nursing to criticise other nurses' work practice - even so subtly. I guess the people who subject themselves to doing so are desperately needing validation for their own practice or in someway need comfort in viewing their own practice as superior. Bullies really need to confront their own insecurities and if you are being bullied, perhaps use projection as your defence. Simply ask them why they are deciding to behave that way. This is quite a passive but confrontational way of getting them to see themselves. If a Dr has sworn at you for example - you could firmly say "I'd just like to ask you why you think it is necessary to swear at me?". If a colleague has been nasty about your weight or the way you walk, you could say "I'm just wondering why it is that you seem to find it funny to criticise me?" It is amazing how the bully after initially being defensive, backs down. Good luck!

I like your suggestion of responding with a question. It does seem less confrontational. I wonder if it might be a good opportunity to try out some of the therapeutic communication techniques I learned in psych nursing. Of course, another nurse might recognize those techniques and take it to mean they were the one with the problem...

A little off-topic, but I have had occassion since psych to use therapeutic communication with several patients, and even a couple of friends, and it's almost freaky, but it really does work!

I like your suggestion of responding with a question. It does seem less confrontational. I wonder if it might be a good opportunity to try out some of the therapeutic communication techniques I learned in psych nursing. Of course, another nurse might recognize those techniques and take it to mean they were the one with the problem...

A little off-topic, but I have had occassion since psych to use therapeutic communication with several patients, and even a couple of friends, and it's almost freaky, but it really does work!

IMHO, I'd make it a statement: "I wabt to know why you think it's necessary to swear at me." I think if you question a bully, it gives them too much power. They can answer you or not and feel as if they've had the 'last word'.

I say this from my own experience: I have a SIL who is an MD (pediatrician) and she is a bully, to the point of rudeness: "I SAID it was..." as if everyone else is just stupid. Needless to say, I do NOT ask her opinion as to childcare -- I have my own doc for that. She has stated that she hates nurses; she said she wishes medicine was more like 'the old days'. :uhoh21: Now, what if I said that I can't stand to work with MD's?

Where's the screaming head smiley icon?

Body language, also, says a lot. As nurses we can always pick up on therapeutic communication techniques and it does work wonders. It works on your kids, to get them to calm down; it works with my spouse to ward off arguments too. I had an instructor tell us that therapeutic communication would change us for the better. I thought it was weird at first, but it does make a difference.

I worked at a company owned by an old military MD, I do have to say somethings I learned there i will take with me wherever I go...I now do contract work for the military and am learning alot...I will share some on this thread...

My own ways of supervision are...I always start a conversation regarding critizing working with a compliment and end it with one.

What I have learned...I am a passive aggressive person, I will admit it..I can come off as intimidating something I learned to deal with that...first

regarding eye contact...eye contact is essential but there is however a proper way to do it and a balance in it. I am big on eye contact and it took me some practice to get it down...first off don't look at another object while beginning the conversation...don't constantly stare at the other person involved...I was told that you start a conversation with eye contact and during the middle of a sentence or after a sentence or two you glance away, but immediately return to the speaker, it confirms with the speaker that you are devoting your attention at them but not looking for every blackhead on his or her nose...lol

There is a thing called a three-point stance...it avoids blaming the supervisor or person giving the talk. what you do is you sit at a ninety degree angle, the object a piece of paper or whatever is the focus, you refer to that you look at it frequently, critizism should never be given face to face, creates a feeling of being dominated and hence defensivness comes out.

'These things have worked great for me...I won't go into the four different types of communication and speaking in ones language...lol IT is pretty awesome thou.

Throughout my nursing training I met a lot of nurses and medical staff who constantly put me down. Some were direct, like those who badmouthed me from two metres away to their friends in a very loud voice, to indirect, like the doctor who I gave information to about a patient I was looking after, walking up to the RN I was rostered on with (currently having a well deserved and rushed lunch, who knew nothing about the patient) and saying that she refused to have students give her information anymore and that a nurse must do it (she didn't complain about the information I gave, just who gave it). Most other staff either looked down their noses at me, were blatantly rude, or just ignored me.

I never did anything about these situations because I was extremely shy and about 19 at the time so I didn't really know what to do.

Now I may be quiet and shy, but I am not that bad a person that I deserve treatment like that. I have noticed that since I have graduated and am working in the same environment (different workplace) that I am treated like a real person, my opinion is respected, and I have even made friends with the people I work with. I know for a fact I haven't changed that much apart from the fact I was even less willing to talk to my workmates, in expectation of what was to come, so the only reason I can find is that I was a student. This opinion has since been backed up by other nurses I have spoken to who have said that it is pretty normal for things like this to happen.

Granted this may not be true everywhere but I think that for a profession that is desperate for new staff it isn't the best way to manage things. I barely made it through my training I hated it so much and I still do (I am 6 months out of University), but I am gradually getting back my confidence in myself and maybe I will get back the spark I started with, I hope so anyway. Sorry if this sounds like a sob story , I haven't meant it that way, I guess I just want to remind people that for those who are training it is often a very uncertain time and even the smallest word can have a big effect. I for one dont' want to be working until I am eighty just because there is no one else to do my job.