The other Angel of Crimea

[tatara]

i feel compelled to let all nurses know that florence nightingale wasn't the only angel of crimea.

if you are a nurse and you still haven't known mary seacole, please google it. she's equally admirable as florence nightingale.

i found this site to be helpful.

www.btinternet.com/~ardena/mary_seacole.htm

[elkpark]

Additionally, all of my reading seems to indicate Flo was rather egocentric and felt a sense of "social superiority" over other people such as Mary Seacole.

However, often is the case that many of histories great heroes were in fact not the nicest people. Isaac Newton, for example.

Flo came from an educated, affluent family in England, which has always had a v. class-conscious society. In that time and place, it was entirely normal and expected that anyone from her background would "feel a sense of 'social superiority'" over people like Mary Seacole (most other people, in fact). I hardly think it's fair to criticize her for that, based on our values and perspectives, when it was deeply woven into every aspect of life in the world and time in which she lived.

Also, I agree that the outstanding people, male or female, in any time and place in history are often not "nice" people -- as the t-shirt and bumper sticker slogan says, "Well-behaved women rarely make history." :)

[MedSurgeMess]

I disagree with your assessment. In fact, both were quite popular during their lives; however, Flo remained popular after death. It is interesting that many sources in fact state that Flo was somewhat of a "poor sport" or arguably "a bad person" in some sense. Flo actually wrote a letter where she accused Mary of running a brothel and being a person of rather poor character. This is in no way related to a RN/LPN debate. Mary was black and Flo was white, during the 1800's. Enough said.

While Flo did contribute greatly to nursing, I really do believe her contribution to be less significant that history makes out. Additionally, all of my reading seems to indicate Flo was rather egocentric and felt a sense of "social superiority" over other people such as Mary Seacole.

However, often is the case that many of histories great heroes were in fact not the nicest people. Isaac Newton, for example.

You took my statement way out of context--Florence was looking at the whole population, and not individual care. She directed others to take care of the masses, while Mary promoted hands on, direct care. I think you read way more into my statement than was ever intended........Also, I didn't realize popularity before/after death had anything to do with the nurse education argument. I don't discredit either lady, they both had their place in nursing history. They were both working for the same thing, just from different angles.

[llg, PhD, RN]

Why can't we just acknowledge that there have been MANY MANY wonderful nurses throughout our history -- some of whom have been celebrated and others who have made their contributions in ways that drew less attention to their accomplishments.

Florence Nightingale is one of many nurses who had admirable careers. However, hers was unique in that she was also an effective politician and social activitist. She did not waste her privileged position in society. She successfully used her social connections and social status to change society and helped establish the formalized profession of nursing. Her work also helped to establish the fields of epidemiology and biostatistics.

She is the one who "got the glory" NOT just because of the care she gave to soldiers in the crimea ... but because of the political/social changes she made in the decades after the war.

Of course there have been many other nurses who deserve to be recognized and honored. And it is OUR responsibility to research their careers and pay them the proper tribute. But let's not do that by bashing those few nurses who have already received their due recognition. There is no need to tear down other people in order to elevate others. That kind of behavior is bad for us all.

[XB9S, BSN, MSN, EdD, RN, APN]

Since this thread was posted I've been looking for articles about Elizabeth Cadwaladr, found a very interesting read so I thought I'd share it here

Strong-willed and opinionated, Betsi made it known to Nightingale that she was not willing to hang around in Crimea and was determined to head for Balaclava. Summoned by Nightingale and charged with upsetting her nurses, Betsi was told that if she misbehaved she would be sent back "to England", forfeiting her pay.

Betsi said, "This put up my Welsh blood and I told her that neither man nor woman dared accuse me of misbehaving."

Nightingale replied that if Betsi went to the Crimea, she would go against her will and would have to be made over to another superintendent. Betsi responded, "Do you think I am a dog or an animal to make me over? I have a will of my own."

Like Seacole, Betsi was a victim of prejudice - prejudice because of her Welshness.

Betsi was a working-class Welsh girl at a time when society's opinion of the Welsh had been shaped by the report on the state of education in Wales - the so called Treason of the Blue Books - which depicted the Welsh as lacking not only basic education but also morality.

Nightingale washed her hands of Betsi, leaving her to make her way to Balaclava, where she proved that she would take on anything if it would improve the quality of care for her patients.

There is no doubt that Nightingale worked hard and was well intentioned, but she had servants to wait on her - Betsi did not. She regularly worked 20 hours a day and often for several days without a break. She slept on a floor in a small room with seven other women. She cooked, cleaned and nursed.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health-news/tm_objectid=15520812&method=full&siteid=50082&headline=how-betsi-fought-for-the-war-wounded-name_page.html