Termination From Employer For Refusing EUV

[RaineyRN7]

I am an Oncology nurse working for a hospital for more than 13 years. I live in California and there is now a mandate in place that is requiring me to be vaccinated before Sept. 30th or I will be terminated from my job. Not only do I not feel comfortable to receive a EUV that no long term studies have been documented because it is too new and not FDA approved but I have also witnessed friends as well as patients having severe side effects after receiving vaccination.

I am unclear how an employer has the LEGAL RIGHT to ask me personal questions about my religious beliefs or medical information (vaccination status), where are my HIPAA Rights. Employer vaccine mandates are subject to religious accommodation under the Title VII of the Civil rights act. For personal reasons I will be submitting for religious exemption to hopefully prevent me from losing my job. 

I'm not sure what the outcome will be but I am planning to seek employment elsewhere in case I do lose my job and likely it won't be in healthcare. I don't know if this will be the end of my nursing career and if it is I feel extremely sad about that. 

What happened to the phrase " my body my choice " ? 

I will not be forced to do anything to my body that I do not choose.

 Through scripture we know that God values our bodies. Our bodies are said to be a temple of the Holy Spirit, and we are called to take care of and honor God's temple. God's words lead use to use our bodies and the gifts He has given us to achieve the will of God.

[toomuchbaloney]

17 minutes ago, RJMDilts said:

To address your questions:

1. Can't speak to your neck of the woods where you practice, but in my local area, we are in PPE for all patients with regard to masks on them and masks on us for every patient encounter. If they are PUI (person under investigation for COVID, e.g., fever, resp sx, N/V/D, etc) we place them in isolation and then implement isolation precautions until their COVID test comes back - or +.

2. Nope, was making a general comment. Thanks for the link. I'm in the process of digesting its' contents. 

Maybe after you realize that nosicomial covid is a danger to hospitalized patients and that hospitals have an obligation to prevent as much nosicomial infection as possible and that vaccination of staff against VPD has long been a staple of that strategy, maybe then you'll feel less stressed about employers making the decision to mandate covid vaccination. 

[RETNAVYTHENMEDIC2RN, ADN, RN, EMT-P]

3 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

You don't agree with the mandate...OK...noted.  

There are retired nurses addressing this topic with actively working nurses in this nursing forum and that has struck a nerve with you...OK...noted. 

What you said is your opinion and characterization of commenting by individuals like myself.  If nurses don't want to hear the thinking of other nurses about not vaccinating and losing employment because of that choice they probably shouldn't share in discussion forums where there's a high likelihood that the members will be vaccination advocates. 

What struck a nerve is the intolerance for opposing view points. I have no problem with opposing opinions. I do have issues with people who would say such things like folks should "go live on an island" because they don't fall in lock step. That comment was made by one of the "veteran" nurses on this forum, and it was not directed to me. If I struck a nerve, so be it. Again, a lack of respect/intolerance is my issue. I like all the view points, find it funny that again and again, I see a cavalier attitude about the shortage of RN's. Yesterday, due to the crisis in my region, there was a temporary $10 an hour raise across the board for all RN's to help stem the exodus from our system. So, while I respect the knowledge of the veteran nurses, I also balance that with the reality on the ground. You, nor any other nurse, can find one place on line where I have advocate against the vaccine. I think everyone should get it.

I also read much of your HAI information. It showed that it was a big problem early in the crisis, but also there was much information to show less so as the crisis continued due to the increased availability of appropriate PPE. Much of the data was also from outside the U.S.  I will actually do a library search for more current data. That said, the risks posed to patients by a lack of staff is far greater than being care for by RN's in proper PPE, at least that is what it appears from the source you provided.

[GrumpyRN, NP]

1 hour ago, RJMDilts said:

I served 30 years in the military and 8 as a medic before joining the ranks of nurses.

I seriously don't care about your "military" service. As far as I am concerned you did this for a pay packet not for any high and mighty ideals. DO NOT EVER tell me about your "service" as all that does is make me think that you are brainwashed into a certain way of thinking with little or no leeway to open your mind.

 

1 hour ago, RJMDilts said:

I am appalled at the lack of respect you show to the younger ones.

What younger ones have I shown disrespect to? I have questioned jive turkey's qualifications, knowledge and experience as a nurse because of things they have written, including the list that you got my reply from.

 

1 hour ago, RJMDilts said:

"I would hate to think I could catch cancer from someone."

(Your bold)

Well yes I would hate to think I could catch cancer from someone. What do 11 or 12 year olds have to do with me? Are you trying to say that you think I am a paedophile? A bit nasty if you are.

 

1 hour ago, RJMDilts said:

Sanctimonious people on here are just about enough to make me start drinking and it's only 0930. 

Says more about you than about the people on this site.

 

1 hour ago, RJMDilts said:

You do what you accuse the other of and think yourself high and mighty.

What am I doing that I accuse "the other" of doing? Be specific. I have been consistent throughout these posts about my position.

 

1 hour ago, RJMDilts said:

I treat the veteran RNs with the respect they earn, but not when they are condescending.

Similar to the condescension you are showing me?

 

1 hour ago, RJMDilts said:

With wisdom comes a multitude of things, chief among them is patience and the ability to treat others with respect.

Well, apparently not in your case.

 

1 hour ago, RJMDilts said:

As a Master Chief Petty Officer, I never spoke to Seaman Recruits that worked for me...

Again, I don't care about your little sailor boy nonsense. Keep it for someone it impresses - that is definitely not me.

 

So in short, if you have something constructive to contribute to this forum please have at it. However, if all you are going to do is bash nurses you perceive as "older" then prepare to be answered and you attitude challenged.

[toomuchbaloney]

10 minutes ago, RJMDilts said:

What struck a nerve is the intolerance for opposing view points. I have no problem with opposing opinions. I do have issues with people who would say such things like folks should "go live on an island" because they don't fall in lock step. That comment was made by one of the "veteran" nurses on this forum, and it was not directed to me. If I struck a nerve, so be it. Again, a lack of respect/intolerance is my issue. I like all the view points, find it funny that again and again, I see a cavalier attitude about the shortage of RN's. Yesterday, due to the crisis in my region, there was a temporary $10 an hour raise across the board for all RN's to help stem the exodus from our system. So, while I respect the knowledge of the veteran nurses, I also balance that with the reality on the ground. You, nor any other nurse, can find one place on line where I have advocate against the vaccine. I think everyone should get it.

I also read much of your HAI information. It showed that it was a big problem early in the crisis, but also there was much information to show less so as the crisis continued due to the increased availability of appropriate PPE. Much of the data was also from outside the U.S.  I will actually do a library search for more current data. That said, the risks posed to patients by a lack of staff is far greater than being care for by RN's in proper PPE, at least that is what it appears from the source you provided.

I don't have intolerance for opposing viewpoints.  I have intolerance for health professionals passing off personal opinion and feelings about vaccines or employer mandates as evidence of something more important or valuable than an opinion or feeling. I have intolerance for the notion that silly or dangerous thinking shouldn't be criticized in unequivocal terms.  

Are you thinking that nosicomial covid transmission will be/could be dramatically decreased using strategies other than vaccination of hospital staff.  In the absence of vaccination transmission was as high as 15% 

[GrumpyRN, NP]

2 hours ago, RJMDilts said:

What I have found really interesting is that many of these "veteran" nurses like their opinions or points of view to be taken w/o question, but often don't cite references/sources. When someone counters their opinions with sources, they completely ignore them,

I think you will find that it is the "veteran" nurses who have supplied reference after reference but it is the younger ones (you know who you are) who ignore these references or just give opinions as fact. 

[RETNAVYTHENMEDIC2RN, ADN, RN, EMT-P]

12 minutes ago, GrumpyRN said:

I seriously don't care about your "military" service. As far as I am concerned you did this for a pay packet not for any high and mighty ideals. DO NOT EVER tell me about your "service" as all that does is make me think that you are brainwashed into a certain way of thinking with little or no leeway to open your mind.

 

What younger ones have I shown disrespect to? I have questioned jive turkey's qualifications, knowledge and experience as a nurse because of things they have written, including the list that you got my reply from.

 

(Your bold)

Well yes I would hate to think I could catch cancer from someone. What do 11 or 12 year olds have to do with me? Are you trying to say that you think I am a paedophile? A bit nasty if you are.

 

Says more about you than about the people on this site.

 

What am I doing that I accuse "the other" of doing? Be specific. I have been consistent throughout these posts about my position.

 

Similar to the condescension you are showing me?

 

Well, apparently not in your case.

 

Again, I don't care about your little sailor boy nonsense. Keep it for someone it impresses - that is definitely not me.

 

So in short, if you have something constructive to contribute to this forum please have at it. However, if all you are going to do is bash nurses you perceive as "older" then prepare to be answered and you attitude challenged.

LMAO!!  My point is cancer is not always a none contact disease, but of course being the kind of arrogant individual that you appear to be, it went right over your head. You lecturing about not being able to "catch cancer" and me pointing out that a person can in fact does so. You are too daft to even pick up on anything I said. It is clear that it is useless to try to engage in a reasonable discussion with you.

I struck a nerve. That's a good thing. Made my day brighter. Grumpy is truly a fitting handle for you. You have have made this Sailor's day. My point was that even as a senior enlisted leader I treated junior enlisted sailors with dignity and respect, not because I had too, but because it was the right thing to do, something I see too little of in the nursing profession. Obviously the truth hurts some in the forum. Sorry about that. And I sure don't need nor desire the respect from someone of your ilk. That was funny though. Liberals, whether nurses or not are all alike so I have heard that lame stuff before Grumpy. I almost spit my coffee out as I read your choppy reply. Have a nice day?

[RETNAVYTHENMEDIC2RN, ADN, RN, EMT-P]

12 minutes ago, GrumpyRN said:

I think you will find that it is the "veteran" nurses who have supplied reference after reference but it is the younger ones (you know who you are) who ignore these references or just give opinions as fact. 

That may be the case for some, but as I read through replies to my posts, unfortunately, that is not the case, although toomuchbaloney recently sent me one on HAI.  

[RETNAVYTHENMEDIC2RN, ADN, RN, EMT-P]

53 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Maybe after you realize that nosicomial covid is a danger to hospitalized patients and that hospitals have an obligation to prevent as much nosicomial infection as possible and that vaccination of staff against VPD has long been a staple of that strategy, maybe then you'll feel less stressed about employers making the decision to mandate covid vaccination. 

Please Please Please get vaccinated...but Please don't fire the RN's who don't. The below information is predicated on strict adherence to PPE protocols, as the article also shows where outbreaks among healthcare workers which occurred in break areas etc., when they were unmasked. But as for patient safety:

A detailed contact tracing study of 226 patients exposed to health care workers with confirmed COVID-19 during the surge in Boston found only 1 possible transmission, and this was in the context of a 30-minute encounter during which both patient and health care worker were unmasked.5 In a complementary analysis of the same hospital system, researchers found no convincing cases of in-hospital transmission among more than 9000 admitted patients after implementation of universal masking for staff and patients.6"

Reference

Richterman A, Meyerowitz EA, Cevik M. Hospital-Acquired SARS-CoV-2 Infection: Lessons for Public Health. JAMA. 2020;324(21):2155–2156. doi:10.1001/jama.2020.21399

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2773128

[GrumpyRN, NP]

10 minutes ago, RJMDilts said:

My point is cancer is not always a none contact disease, but of course being the kind of arrogant individual that you appear to be, it went right over your head. You lecturing about not being able to "catch cancer" and me pointing out that a person can in fact does so. You are too daft to even pick up on anything I said. 

Of course I understood what you were doing. You were nit picking. You took one sentence from my post then found something that disagreed with it and had an AH HA! moment, I can make old Grumpy look silly by using this totally irrelevant information.

 

18 minutes ago, RJMDilts said:

I struck a nerve. That's a good thing. Made my day brighter. Grumpy is truly a fitting handle for you.

You hardly "struck a nerve." It takes a lot more than that nonsense to upset me.

Yes, you are correct, GrumpyRN was very carefully chosen as my nom de plume and I have used it for many years.

 

20 minutes ago, RJMDilts said:

And I sure don't need nor desire the respect from someone of your ilk.

Good, because you were never going to get it.

 

21 minutes ago, RJMDilts said:

Liberals, whether nurses or not are all alike so I have heard that lame stuff before Grumpy.

You do understand that I am Scottish and in the UK don't you? I would have thought that a sailor with "thirty years experience" would understand that not everyone is American. "Liberal" is not the insult you think it is.

 

23 minutes ago, RJMDilts said:

choppy reply

I have no idea what that means. Do you mean, I chopped up your post and replied to each part separately? If so, say so.

[GrumpyRN, NP]

23 minutes ago, RJMDilts said:

That may be the case for some, but as I read through replies to my posts, unfortunately, that is not the case, although toomuchbaloney recently sent me one on HAI.  

You have not written anything that required a reference in reply. Everything you have written to me has been subjective opinion.

 

[GrumpyRN, NP]

16 minutes ago, RJMDilts said:

Please Please Please get vaccinated...but Please don't fire the RN's who don't. The below information is predicated on strict adherence to PPE protocols, as the article also shows where outbreaks among healthcare workers which occurred in break areas etc., when they were unmasked. But as for patient safety:

A detailed contact tracing study of 226 patients exposed to health care workers with confirmed COVID-19 during the surge in Boston found only 1 possible transmission, and this was in the context of a 30-minute encounter during which both patient and health care worker were unmasked.5 In a complementary analysis of the same hospital system, researchers found no convincing cases of in-hospital transmission among more than 9000 admitted patients after implementation of universal masking for staff and patients.6"

Reference

Richterman A, Meyerowitz EA, Cevik M. Hospital-Acquired SARS-CoV-2 Infection: Lessons for Public Health. JAMA. 2020;324(21):2155–2156. doi:10.1001/jama.2020.21399

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2773128

What are you trying to say with this? That masks work? We knew that.

Was the patient in your quote vaccinated? You don't say. Perhaps if they had been they would not have caught the virus from the unmasked health care worker.

[toomuchbaloney]

41 minutes ago, RJMDilts said:

You lecturing about not being able to "catch cancer" and me pointing out that a person can in fact does so.

No, people do not, in fact, catch cancer.  They catch a vaccine preventable illness which can, after years of inflammation can lead to cancer. 

 

43 minutes ago, RJMDilts said:

You are too daft to even pick up on anything I said. It is clear that it is useless to try to engage in a reasonable discussion with you.

Or your attempts to communicate specific points aren't as well developed as you imagine them to be. Your personal insult skills aren't that impressive either. 

 

45 minutes ago, RJMDilts said:

Obviously the truth hurts some in the forum.

Yes. We get called bullies a great deal by members here feeling hurt by the truth or facts or evidence about vaccination. 

 

33 minutes ago, RJMDilts said:

1 hour ago, toomuchbaloney said:

 

Please Please Please get vaccinated...but Please don't fire the RN's who don't.

If they don't meet the requirements for employment and don't intend to meet the requirements they can go work where there is not a mandate.