Survey on Causes for Nurse Faculty Shortage

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Nov 22, 2009

I went back to school to get my MSN. I am over 50 and have a student loan. I can't afford to give up my day job. I have been teaching 4 years part time and love it. I would also like to get my Phd but can not afford it.

To me pay is the number one barrier. I have never has issues with the lack of respect.

MedSurgeMess · Nov 22, 2009

Sorry, I don't think it is the money. Practice is horrible, and yes I have been in both practice and full-time teaching, at the same time, for many years. The same thing is wrong with both practice and nursing school. Colleagues who stab you in the back to make themselves look better, senseless paperwork up the wazoo, and everything driven by customer service. Who cares if we cure the patients; did we make them and their families smile and give them hot meals? Who cares if we teach the students; do they LIKE us, or do they think we're mean and make them work too hard? Never mind that they can't think or write a coherent sentence or do any math at all without a calculator. Customer service ratings will be the death of this country. Literally.

I gave a kudos for this statement, and wish I could do it X 100! I teach PT and work at the bedside FT both, and have to agree wholeheartedly!

Penguin67 · Nov 22, 2009

What do you think will help resolve the shortage of Nurse Faculty?

More tuition assistance to help faculty affor the PhD. And the PhD is not going to go away as the requirement for a tenure-track position or for promotion, as the accreditation standards look at how many doctorally prepared faculty are in an institution as compared to MSN prepared faculty, so we need to find creative ways to get more nurses prepared with a PhD. The DNP is ok, but it is preparing someone for a clinical role, not for a teaching and research role. Is a PhD prepared to assume the role of an NP or CNS? Nope. But NPs and CNS are being used as faculty members, and some without any teaching preparation during their MSN.

What are the problems as you see it contributing to the shortage?

People who "want a change" away from the bedside but will not commit to obtaining the terminal degree to secure that position. I can honestly say that the only reason I pursed my doctorate was so that I could teach. I knew it was required and I did what was needed to get the degree. It took 4 years, very long years where I didn't see much of my family or friends and money was tight, but I did it because that it what was needed to keep my teaching position. (I had to make progress each eyar on the doctorate to keep that position.)

Also, I think it is hard for an NP or CNS to teach, because they need to keep their certification current and work enough hours for that, and it's not always easy to find a position where you will work one day a week. You kind of wind up with two "masters", the school and the institution where you are working to keep the hours up, and no one understands when schedules need a little altering. Frustrating.

Part time faculty are usually easy to find, but since they work full time at the bedside usually, they can't always come to faculty course meetings ,and often are somewhat in the dark about the students and their curriculum, leading to frustration and often quitting the position. I've seen that happen many times. It is to the student's benefit if a school can hire, train and retain a part time faculty member, so they become experienced in the teaching role. Teaching is not just sitting back and watching the students to see what they do wrong, and many believe that to be so, which doesn't teach the students anything. Teaching is facilitating learning, by direct teaching and by giving the student opportunities to grow and learn in the clinical area. Not always easy, even for a seasoned bedside nurse. You have to be willing to take the time to grow into the teaching role, and too often, many part time faculty get frustrated and leave before they can truly learn how to teach clinically. Also, many new faculty, full and part time, do not want to be the one who fails a student clinially, and want to be liked, so they pass a student who should have failed clinically, doing them no favors in the long run.

When you are "off", you usually still are doing work. Grading papers is not easily done in the office with interruptions, You just need to do that at home. Also, writing good test questions takes time and I prefer to do that at home. Lecture writing and creating power point slides? Sometimes at the office, but more likely, I'll do it at home. I just want to be in my creative mode without interruption at work, so I know my final product will be good. Part of the job involves work in the evenings, weekends and on holidays. Not too bad if you have a spouse and family who understand, but some do not.

And, on the three campuses that I've worked as a faculty member, nurses are not paid near the amount they would make, with their MSN or doctorate, in the real world. We talk about new grads making more, bnut that would more realistically be a new grad who works nights and weekends, and tons of overtime. And, remember, that the ENTRY LEVEL degree to teaching is a doctorate, so if you don't have a doctorate, you will get pay equivalent to below entry level until the doctorate is obtained. Stinks, but that is life. Why should a fresh MSN make as much as a veteran college professor with many years of experience and a doctorate? You have to pay some dues somewhere.

Is it just a money issue?

For many, it is. But I say that if you are truly happy at your job, you will nenver "work" a day in your life, as you will just be doing that whihc makes you happy. That said, no job is perfect, but at least I can say that I love to teach, despite the yucky parts to the role.

For some, getting away from the bedside and working a job where you feel like you are making a difference and the students appreciate your time to teach them is worth a slight pay cut. But, you can still work extra shifts at a hospital to make some extra $$ and that also keeps your clinical skills current. Kills two birds with one stone. There are many opportunities for making extra money, summer classes are usually over and above your base salary.

Good luck with your project. Hope this helps.

meluhn · Nov 22, 2009

Sorry, I don't think it is the money. Practice is horrible, and yes I have been in both practice and full-time teaching, at the same time, for many years. The same thing is wrong with both practice and nursing school. Colleagues who stab you in the back to make themselves look better, senseless paperwork up the wazoo, and everything driven by customer service. Who cares if we cure the patients; did we make them and their families smile and give them hot meals? Who cares if we teach the students; do they LIKE us, or do they think we're mean and make them work too hard? Never mind that they can't think or write a coherent sentence or do any math at all without a calculator. Customer service ratings will be the death of this country. Literally.

I was teaching in an LPN program and was let go because I could not contain my disgust about how the administration catered to the students and consistently did not back up the instructors. Students who were caught cheating were allowed to continue in the program. Students who were known drug users and made up excuses about not have the $25 to take the mandatory drug test were allowed to skip clinicals. I had students argue with me about test questions in front of the whole class when they were blatantly wrong. It was a horrible experience. The students resented the fact that I challenged them to the point where they actually had to study. :coollook:

And you want to talk about not being able to write a coherent sentence?! I couldn't believe and/or understand what I was reading half the time. This is just the tip of the iceberg of what I had to deal with as an nsg instructor.

Why would I leave my hospital to take such abuse? At least I have a supportive work environment and can make money and at the end of the day, go home and not worry about anything.

curiosity123 · Nov 22, 2009

Wow. I am stunned by the descriptions of disrespectful student behavior. I don't mean to steal this thread - but what can be done to protect the profession from this caliber of student? Nursing won't be considered one of the most respected professions if we do not continue to police ourselves.

When I was in school a few decades ago, a student colleague exaggerated on a paper about a clinical experience. Despite highly satisfactory work to that point, she was given the choice of dropping out, or repeating the entire year.

meluhn · Nov 22, 2009

Wow. I am stunned by the descriptions of disrespectful student behavior. I don't mean to steal this thread - but what can be done to protect the profession from this caliber of student? Nursing won't be considered one of the most respected professions if we do not continue to police ourselves.

From what I hear, many BSN programs and some ADN programs are doing what it takes. By making entry into the program very competitive, they are weeding out the less motivated or less capable students. Nobody is going to like this and I know I will get flamed, but we need to make a BSN the entry level into the profession. That being said, I know for a fact that most ADN nurses are quite capable and intelligent enough to be nurses, however, we will not get the respect we deserve unless we have the same education or better than our colleagues in other health professions. Now that there doesn't seem to be a shortage is the perfect time to raise the standards.

The ADN and LPN prgrams were an answer to the nursing shortage. Did you know that the entrance exam to LPN programs only require a 10th grade reading level/education? This does not say much for our profession.

I took report the other day (from an RN)at the nurses station in fornt of a doc who just happened to be there. I was so embarrassed by the unprofessional way the nurse was talking and how she conducted herself and I kept thinking that it would prove what other professionals think of us anyway, ie dumb, white trash, etc. We are the ones responsible for the image of nursing, to some degree, by conducting ourselves in a professional manor.

deemarys · Nov 23, 2009

:yeah: :yeah: :yeah: Thanks to all who responded to my post. I learned alot from all of your past experiences. It is my hope that I will educate others about those experiences and perhaps this will open the eyes of the School Administration. I really do hope so. Good Luck to you all with your future endeavors and GOD BLESS.

Thank again,

Dimaris

Graduating PN December 18,2009

nolabarkeep · Nov 23, 2009

While I agree with every thing you wrote, they all boil down to the money. Unless your spouse is wealthy, it's unrealistic to take that much of a pay cut. Kudos to anyone who can.