suboxone and nursing (why are others so negative about this medication)

lifeistweet · Mar 1, 2010

The super model on Dr. Drew stated she felt suboxone was as strong as heroine. I think that's ridiculous. It does give you a mild buzz and is supposed to prevent relapse. If you work around narcs and need it for relapse prevention than use it! If you feel you can't work without it than use it! Keep it to yourself, who cares what others think. If it's working for you great! I'm glad to hear you've gone 4 years without a relapse. odaat, :yeah:

southernbeegirl, BSN, RN · Mar 1, 2010

suboxone, IMO, is just swapping one drug for another. that is NOT recovery. that's stabilized drug use.

gmkj · Mar 2, 2010

Well I guess you probably don't believe addiction is a disease either.If you do believe it is a disease don't you think it should be treated like one. would you not give medication to others for there disease such as. Diabetes or CHF or HTN etc...

I know it is a drug but it does not in anyway get me high it just stabilizes the disease. which helps me manage my life and my chronic pain from my Osteoarthritis, Degenerative joint disease,Spinal stanosis. which is why I started taking medications in the first place and no longer choose to because of my disease. I do not now or ever had a drinking problem, I don't smoke Marijuana or do any other street drugs nor have I ever. I just got caught up in taking prescribed opioid pain pills for my many surgeries and other pain related issues. I do not however judge others who may be addicted to heroin and who need suboxone to manage their lives. I do not want to sound mean spirited but it just hurts when I know that suboxone has given me my life back and I know there are many more out there who could use the help,but are afraid of it because of statements like that. I also am wondering if you are in recovery or have ever tried subooxne.If you are in recovery and doing it with out help of any medication(not just Subooxne)then I give you a lot of credit and you deserve it. I would also like to know how long you have been in recover? I am almost four years and Yes I do consider myself clean and sober.

southernbeegirl, BSN, RN · Mar 2, 2010

I'm about to be clean and sober for 6yrs (next month).

Do i believe addiction is a disease? Yes, with all my heart and soul, with every cell in my body. it's a wicked disease that just wants to kill us.

I got sober thru rehab, and the 12 steps.

I have a busted up spine (L3,4,5). when i was using, i would tell myself i NEEDED the medication because that's what my disease said. since becoming clean and sober, i have learned that the pain i have is not near what i thought it was when i was using. the disease makes you obsess over every little pain you have and the obsession escalates until you are consumed with the obsession that you are in pain and need narcotics to live.

after a few months of sobriety, i was shocked that my pain level was actually quite lower than it had been. tylenol and ibuprofen actually work, imagine that!

i have severe radiculopathy and at times can barely walk. what i've learned is that physical therapy exercises are much more important than using narcotics because they are the only thing that really help. i do take tramadol prn. my husband (also in recovery and a drug/alcohol counselor)gives me the medication. i dont even take tylenol by myself.

so yes, i understand your situation.

whatever works for you, works for you.

for me? substituting one drug for another is not sobriety.

gmkj · Mar 2, 2010

I am surprised to hear you are on tramadol. although it is not classified as a narcotic it is a opioid derivative. I was also addicted to tramadol and had if not as bad worse withdrawals from the Tramadol.I also have heard others say the same thing.I do consider it a drug that I would not do if in recovery, If you are able to handle it that is great. I wish I could. i am very Glad to hear you are free from narcotic pain pills. I know how hard it is to stay off them. I tried the 12 step program but it was not for me.I did however get sober through rehab and almost a year of intensive group workshops. Suboxone is far from being my only tool but it is a very important one.Best wishes with your continued successful recovery.

rn/writer, RN · Mar 2, 2010

Each recovering person has to answer to their own higher power and to the results. If your conscience is clear and the suboxone is working for you and has given you your life back, then no one else's opinion matters.

jackstem · Mar 3, 2010

Each recovering person has to answer to their own higher power and to the results. If your conscience is clear and the suboxone is working for you and has given you your life back, then no one else's opinion matters.

The opinion that actually does matter is the board of nursing in the state of licensure. Contact the board of nursing and ask them what the nurse practice act says about practicing while taking suboxone.

As an example, the South Carolina Board of Nursing wanted to know if a nurse in the Recovering Professional's Program (RPP) could practice while taking suboxone. They requested Dr. Paul Earley, the director of the Talbott Recovery Campus in Atlanta, to give his opinion. Below is from the SC Board of Nursing Meeting Minutes

SC DEPARTMENT OF LABOR, LICENSING AND REGULATION
110 CENTERVIEW DRIVE, COLUMBIA, SOUTH CAROLINA 29210
BOARD OF NURSING MEETING MINUTES - SEPTEMBER 25, 2008
Frank Sheheen and Richard Wilson of the Recovering Professional Program
(RPP) appeared before the Board to discuss the use of buprenorphine while
participating in the RPP. They reported that discussions between the Board of
Medical Examiners and Dr. Paul Early, an expert on the subject, support the
conclusion that nurses under monitoring with the RPP should not be authorized to
return to practice while taking buprenorphine.
A motion was made by Dr. Whiting to deny of authorization to practice nursing
under the influence of buprenorphine. Ms. Doria seconded the motion. The
motion carried unanimously.

In this instance, practicing while taking suboxone would result in action being taken against a nurse's license. This is another instance where seeking an attorney consultation familiar with practicing before the nursing board in your state is money well spent. When I was a practicing anesthetist, I consulted an attorney several times when I had questions regarding my practice. Contact the American Association of Nurse Attorneys or the Bar Association in your state to find an attorney who can help answer your questions.

Jack

SWS RN, ASN, RN · Mar 3, 2010

To gmkj and all,

This is a topic that I am passionate about and one that I have personal experience with.

I also suffer from chronic pain. I have been diagnosed with djd,rheumatoid arthritis, (the ever popular) fibromyalgia and sarcoidosis. I was on chemotherapy for 2 years and I have had bilateral knee and bilateral hip replacements. I know from PAIN! This all began at a relatively young age--I was in my 30's.

I also believe from the bottom of my feet that addiction is a Disease...I have it!

For many years I was on massive doses of narcotics. Yes, they were all legal and Yes, they were all prescribed. They were also HIGHLY ADDICTIVE!!!!!

I did not feel "euphoric" or high when I used them, in fact, I felt normal. Finally, after about 8 years of worrying about whether or not I would run out of meds and knowing that this really was no way to live decided to stop.

At that time I was taking about 380mg of MS a day. I have also been prescribed (in no particular order) Vicodin, Percoset, Oxycontin and Oxy IR, and the king-Dilaudid.

I did not really want to stop... first, I thought I needed the med's for my condition and two-I really did not believe that I could stop. I also knew that with the tolerance I had built that it was only a matter of time before something tragic would happen.

On January 7th of 2009 I knew something had to give. I went to see a "specialist". I was placed on Suboxone.

I took it for 7months. After much soul searching and RESEARCH on this drug, I came to believe that it was just subsitituting one drug for another. Buprenorphine was originally intended for analgesia, and the anestheologists and pain managment specialists are now beginning to use it again for pain control. The FDA has issued an ok-per my doctor.

It is also HIGHLY ADDICTIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Suboxone can stay in the system and has been recovered from urine, feces and other bodily substances for 11 days. I am not making this up, this is in the actual literature. I also spoke with several pharmacists about the chemistry of this drug.

It took 17 days of torture to rid my system of suboxone. I felt like red ants were crawling all over my body and I did not sleep for 2 weeks...at all...Thank GOD and I do mean GOD that I somehow hung in there. It had to be Divine intervention. I would go to the beach before dawn and stare at the surf and beg to die!

AA and NA helped but in the end not formal prayer but "talking" to God is what helped. I recited the serenity prayer like a mantra. I finally began to recover. The really funny thing is that MIRACULOUSLY my pain level decreased to very tolerable. Aleve and Motrin do work! So do massage, warm baths, good nutrition, meditation and mild exersize. I am not a "health" nut. I am a healthier person and I feel so much better I could cry!

I am also VERY GRATEFUL. I never thought I would say this, I am glad I had to go through this. It showed me a strength I did not believe I had. I thought it was hopeless and I would never be free from drugs.

I never want to go through this again, and I never will. However, if I had to, I would stop taking the morphine (or whatever) and not use buprenorphine. It takes about 3-4 days to clear most narcotics-at least the acute phase. I am also convinced that it takes many months to clear the body of the drugs and years to clear the brain. I do not believe the brain ever returns to that preaddicted state. It can however be functional.

To bring this back to a business note-I did work as an RN through all of those years and thank God, nothing ever happened. I did self report to the Fl IPN when I decided to stop. Sort of like a "police" mechanism so I would be forced into it... in case I chickened out. I did not work for 7 months while I withdrew/detoxed. I was not lucky enough to be able to go to inhouse treatment (financially impossible) but I did go to IOP. I now attend the usual weekly IPN nurse support meetings and go to AA or NA whenever I can. I have a 5 yr contract and it seems like forever, but I try to not think about the length of time and go about my business daily.

I was Blessed to begin working in Dec 09 as a case manager and the stigma of IPN was not an issue. I know how unbelievebly lucky I am with the way the job market is today.

The Florida Board of Nursing does not allow the practice of Nursing while using Suboxone. I agree!

It is a Partial Opoid agonist. Saying that it is not a narcotic is like saying "I am a little bit pregnant".

Everyone has a right to live the life they want-I am not trying to preach to anyone but maybe change a little bit of thinking. I have lived this and I know there is a better way. If you really don't believe that Suboxone is as addictive as morphine or acts like a narcotic-try going without it...and yes, it does cause alteration in mood.

I also believe that taking suboxone is not sobriety, that is my personal opinion (as is not drinking).

I don't compare it to taking a drug for diabetes 2-you would not encourage a diabetic to take drugs so they could continue an unhealthy nutritional life!

I was blessed to get a new job in December of 09 working as a case manager. I miss the bedside nursing but since I primarily worked in ICU, PICU and ER, it's probably a good idea I am not around that environment.(I also worked 7p-7a for many years and I miss that the most)

If I can do this, anyone can.

God Bless everyone who has made it through and lived to tell!

:redbeathePeace and Serenity to all,

SWS RN

gmkj · Mar 3, 2010

I appreciate you taking the time to post your opinions. Mine is different and I have a clear conscious. I also know many people who tapered slowly off suboxone and are doing great. they tapered slowly and used all the tools they were able to get while taking suboxone that they may never have learned being unable to stay clean without suboxone. I also do not feel it alters my state of mind. I do not feel as if my state is altered and I do not feel in a state of euphoria. I do not abuse or take more then prescribed I some times even forget to take my dose. Since it stays in your system for a long time I have not had any problem missing a dose. All I know is that I do not think about pills 24/7 and have a normal live(what I would call a normal life.I have ).I have no cravings whatsoever . Now when I count narcotics instead of craving them I feel a sense of peace and not panic My only negative thoughts come whee I think about years ago when I would get excited anytime I saw a full narcotic cabinet and felt like a kid in a candy shop. now I feel like a professional doing a part of my job like any other part of nursing.I am doing this with my case workers o.k..I do know it is considered a narcotic but I feel it is a medication to treat my addiction and I personally have never abused it.SWS RN: when you got off did you stop it suddenly or did you taper off. I am not sure why you had the problems that you did but I know everybody is different.I believe everybodys addiction should be treated on an indidvidual basis(without judgement from others)

gmkj · Mar 3, 2010

I found this reply in a thread and it says what I feel. I hope they do not remove it. Since I got it from this allnurses.com website

."The naloxone component in SUBOXONE is included to help discourage diversion and misuse. Naloxone has very limited bioavailability when administered sublingually, as intended. However, if SUBOXONE is crushed and injected, the naloxone will precipitate opioid withdrawal. In the absence of an opioid, the antagonist has no effect.

"

.https://allnurses.com/emergency-nursing/suboxone-sublingual-narcan-322705.html

Please check it out it explains why you can not abuse subooxne.if you are on a maintenance program

southernbeegirl, BSN, RN · Mar 3, 2010

noone is judging you. we are just trying to share our experiences. noone is trying to tell you that you are "wrong".

like i said before, what works for you...works for you. even if it doesnt work for someone else.

only you know if it is truly working for you or not. what would happen if you ran out? would you freak out, obsess until you got more? would it consume you until you got more?

again, noone is judging you. we are just trying to help. which was the reason you started the thread, no?