Not a huge Will & Grace fan, but am loving Jack in nursing school. I love it for these reasons:
Instead of getting dumb blond & bimbo jokes, the show using humor related to nursing. How bout Jack using his skills to get dates. "I'm Jack, student nurse. If anyone needs a breast exam... men only, send them over" That joke while professionally inappropriate was hilarious.
It's not like nursing school, but I have understood every piece of dialogue and obviously they hired a consultant to write some of the material. How about when the tough instructor pimped Jack on some vital signs basics. Loved it cause I could answer the questions.
While it is played for laughs, you can tell nursing school is serious business showing students getting together to study & this has been the only occupation Jack has showed real emotion toward.
Any other views on the only student nurse prominently shown on tv right now?
Ok Brad your school does sound behind the times, that is aweful and uncalled for totally I think.
Is there no other schools in your area for nursing at all?
It really makes me mad to see someone wanting to be a nurse give up because of sexism (which in your school it sure seems like it to me!), Did you ever talk to the nursing director or anyone about how you felt? What happened with the other male students in your program?
You don't need support from your peer group because you have no such doctrine as a female. A woman that has placed herself in a job traditionaly filled by a man would be descibed as corageous, driven, and of great character. A woman in those roles would only get more respect from others in her peer group wouldn't she?
From your insignificant sample of 10 males, that haven't put on a feminine looking smock yet or noticed that the proper pronoun in all thier nursing texts screams It says "she" you idiot, not he....can't you see that?
And on and on.
If those "tough guys" say they are never bothered by it or that thier buddies just give understanding support, are lying because they know you might be "chuckling" to yourself about them if you knew how "silly" it all is.
I'm not saying these things to upset you or, God forbid, turn you against me(like I need more of that), only to try and enlighten you as to how a hetero male feels about nursing.
Brad
As most nurses are female, what is wrong with using "she" as the pronoun? So many excuses are given for "he" being the accepted pronoun that don't make sense. At least this one does make sense.
I am not syaing these things to upset you, but it does seem that you are dealing with a tiny portion of what females deal with every day of their lives from the time they are born, and you don't like it much. I am not saying that it's fair that you feel excluded, but when is it ok for women, in a female dominated profession, to feel like we matter or count for once?
I guess that you're inferring that the character had a hard time "fitting in". What is important to public opinnion about the subject is how the movie porytrayed the character.
GI Jane was portrayed as courageous, driven to succede and of great character wasn't she?
As a female, how would you respond to her socialy as another woman?
Would she be ostracized and derided for her chosen profession by her peer group?
Wouldn't women just be proud of her for her ideals and idolize her?
As most nurses are female, what is wrong with using "she" as the pronoun? So many excuses are given for "he" being the accepted pronoun that don't make sense. At least this one does make sense.
There is a distinction between being "right" (making sense) and being "correct" (proper grammar).
It is clear that a great effort was made in editing such a text. When a professional writer presents his work to an editor, it has proper grammar.........unless the writer has been instructed otherwise. I think it was "correct" when it went to the editor and became "right" when the publisher thought it should say "she" because, after all, nurses are "she".
Grammar has taken a leap forward in recent years and accepted the "he/She" as can be found in different forms of writing these days, not just textbooks. As for the incorrect but right "she", a considerable effort must be made to exclude male gender from an entire volume of work.
There is a distinction between being "right" (making sense) and being "correct" (proper grammar).
It is clear that a great effort was made in editing such a text. When a professional writer presents his work to an editor, it has proper grammar.........unless the writer has been instructed otherwise. I think it was "correct" when it went to the editor and became "right" when the publisher thought it should say "she" because, after all, nurses are "she".
Grammar has taken a leap forward in recent years and accepted the "he/She" as can be found in different forms of writing these days, not just textbooks. As for the incorrect but right "she", a considerable effort must be made to exclude male gender from an entire volume of work.
interesting that you stand by "she" as being "incorrect."
I guess that you're inferring that the character had a hard time "fitting in". What is important to public opinnion about the subject is how the movie porytrayed the character.
GI Jane was portrayed as courageous, driven to succede and of great character wasn't she?
As a female, how would you respond to her socialy as another woman?
Would she be ostracized and derided for her chosen profession by her peer group?
Wouldn't women just be proud of her for her ideals and idolize her?
In the movie women (except for the lesbians) do turn their back on her as well as the men. It only becomes accepted after she completes her training and forces people to accept her.
As is true in life.
I am a female who does not wear make-up, who does not shave her armpits, who has always been considered to be "unfeminine" by both men and women and have been ostracized for it, but as it does not make sense to me to conform to the rigid guidelines set within this culture, and it never has, I don;t think you could ask me a question like "how would you responmd socially to her" as I am drawn to all women who challenge these mores which encourage the subversion of women's strength.
The movie didn;t go over well because men were grossed out by Demi looking butch (read: threatened) and women were grossed out by Demi looking/acting butch. No one wants to see that. YES I think she would be ostracized for behaving as she did.
No, I don;t think that "women" as a group would be proud of her. I think that after she succeeds and a decade or so later when LOTS of women do it all the time, THEN there would be more of an acceptance, but unti;l then, the only support she would get would be from freaks like me who don't shave their pits and played with tonka trucks when they were little. BTW, as if it matters, I am not gay, so don;t chalk my tomboy attitudes to my not caring what men think or wanting to sleep with men. I am married and pregnant and am a nurse. All things that one would think don;t go with how I describe myself to be. I just believe that gender binaries are the last vestiges of the subversion of female power. Hopefully one day it won;t be "incorrect" to have a pronoun be "she."
The above post about what the text communicated with the use of the incorrect but "right" pronoun "she" is what I meant.
I wrote to Marilyn
From your insignificant sample of 10 males, that haven't put on a feminine looking smock yet or noticed that the proper pronoun in all thier nursing texts screams It says "she" you idiot, not he....can't you see that?
In this example, the text is speaking to the male nursing students that have yet to experience the humilliation of realizing that the proper pronoun was changed deliberately as an example of nursing being feminine.
interesting that you stand by "she" as being "incorrect."
It would only be incorrect in the case of nursing programs that claim neutrality of gender in the vocation.
A generic "he" is used when a neutral gender is intended. The Blair Hanbook states, "If there is no doubt about the gender of the antecedent, you can use the pronoun of the same gender"
Therefore, a neutral gender is not intended and a feminine context is not in doubt.
It seems that the publisher, the program that approves the text and anyone that thinks it's the proper pronoun to be used, also thinks that nursing is feminine.
It is interesting to note that the Physician Assistant profession has more females than males and the gender gap is growing steadily. Despite this disparity you will find no such message in thier texts nor will you observe such a stereotype being acceptable by way of apathy.
I wanted to express that I'm not trying to be angry or mean. The tone of my posts sometimes give the wrong impression. I'm simply trying to use all those fancy-smancy argumentitive techniques I learned in English to make my points.
This discussion board has a great quality and quantity of ideas. It should be possible to explore them together in argumentitive writing style without offending eachother. I will try my very best not to offend anyone........promise.
Let's all try to think about the fact this is one of those issues that have deep emotional roots for everyone. Some of what we say to eachother is bound to "tug on the short hairs" of those feelings. I care about this issue but not to the detriment of anyone's feelings.
That being said, I think that we are making progress with it.
marilynmom, LPN, NP
2,155 Posts
Here is where I thought you called me an idiot....
Marilyn