Struggling with an unmotivated clinical group

milesims · Apr 13, 2016

So because the school receives money from you, you are entitled to compliments when not truly deserved?

Since when was this about me?

I get straight As, received compliments from every clinical instructor I've been with because I do things right, and run my own home care agency while in school. Don't bring me into this, you don't know me.

And I believe that nursing students help out in Ontario hospitals a lot. We do patient vitals, their bed baths, their cleaning, bed pans, and many more tasks, for 8-12 hours a day, sometimes with no breaks. We take these tasks off of the nurse's hands, and we are not supervised unless we are giving medications. We ARE working for the hospital. How are we not helping?

But you are not working for the hospital or making things easier on them.

Please educate yourself before making such an insult on all nursing students in Ontario.

ReinventingMyselfAgain, MSN, RN · Apr 13, 2016

Here's how it could end badly... The student gets a compliment (like they are a child) then decides from that compliment they are excelling at clinicals and don't need to do anything more. Then they stand around even more.
Another compliment? "Wow! I'm really doing everything right this semester. No need to change any of my behavior." = Continues being useless on the floor.
They are students, not children. If they don't deserve a compliment, then they shouldn't receive one as some sort of backhanded way to attempt to make them useful during their shift.

This.

Not every student is whiny and unmotivated. But many of them are. They want to be nurses, but want to do as little as possible in clinical to accomplish the requirements, or they only want to do the 'cool' stuff. It's not my responsibility to convince adults that they want to do the job they are in school for. It makes me question of they really want to be there.

And the over-praising of menial, expected tasks/accomplishments has gotten out of hand. I can honestly say, with every student whom I've had that has struggled, I can and do compliment them on their strengths. I am able to see good in (almost) everyone, and don't want to complely deflate them. But sometimes overdoing the compliments when they are sandwiched in with criticisms can be confusing to them. Sometimes they can't hear the 'but you're still failing'.

milesims · Apr 13, 2016

It's not my responsibility to convince adults that they want to do the job they are in school for. It makes me question of they really want to be there.

No. It's not your responsibility. But it'd be a nice thing to do to lift students up by letting them know what they did right. Again, positive reinforcement brings about positive actions. These lazy, unmotivated people WILL most likely pass, because I've seen it a million times. So no, it's not your responsibility. But tell that to the patients these nurses will receive.

And the over-praising of menial, expected tasks/accomplishments has gotten out of hand. I can honestly say, with every student whom I've had that has struggled, I can and do compliment them on their strengths. I am able to see good in (almost) everyone, and don't want to complely deflate them. But sometimes overdoing the compliments when they are sandwiched in with criticisms can be confusing to them. Sometimes they can't hear the 'but you're still failing'.

I absolutely agree with you. Don't overdo the "compliments," because positive reinforcement that isn't backed with positive actions will bring negative results. Meaning spoiled, whiny students.

You seem like a very good professor :)

Editorial Team / Moderator · Apr 13, 2016

I don't know where you went to school, but where I am, students WORK in clinical placements, for FREE. Actually, I pay the school $800 a semester to work. I don't know what your definition of "worker" is.

Worker = employee. Not a student. Employees are invested in the end product offered by their employer in successful companies (again, the Harris book that I mentioned, really fascinating).

I never paid anyone to work for free while in school; thus, I don't group "students" with "workers" from a sociological or business perspective. I would suspect that what you are experiencing is not the norm. Maybe it's a Canadian thing? I cannot say as I am in the US and only have experience in that system. A lot of experience. Lol

Editorial Team / Moderator · Apr 13, 2016

And the over-praising of menial, expected tasks/accomplishments has gotten out of hand. I can honestly say, with every student whom I've had that has struggled, I can and do compliment them on their strengths. I am able to see good in (almost) everyone, and don't want to complely deflate them. But sometimes overdoing the compliments when they are sandwiched in with criticisms can be confusing to them. Sometimes they can't hear the 'but you're still failing'.

Exactly. And each student is different in how they receive messages, meaning that you have to be absolutely certain they hear the message. How often do we see posts here in which students say that they are surprised to fail clinicals at the end? Obviously we don't know whether students are not hearing the message during the semester or their educators are reluctant to come out and say it strongly, but this is why continuous feedback is so very important. I am only a few courses in to the "meat" of my nurse educator MSN program, and I have learned so much about these issues. It gives me a new respect for educators and their struggles, just as I am about to take on the educator role in a clinical setting â€” not with students, but with RN staff. I expect the experience to be vastly different than teaching students, but there are common principles for sure.

This has been a very interesting discussion.

cracklingkraken, ASN, RN · Apr 13, 2016

I personally prefer my instructors to give me feedback. Whether positive or negative, it gives me insight on where my strengths and weaknesses are. Obviously, as a student, there are plenty areas that need improvement, and having that constructive criticism gives me areas that I can actively work on.

Nurse Leigh · Apr 13, 2016

Since when was this about me?
I get straight As, received compliments from every clinical instructor I've been with because I do things right, and run my own home care agency while in school. Don't bring me into this, you don't know me.
And I believe that nursing students help out in Ontario hospitals a lot. We do patient vitals, their bed baths, their cleaning, bed pans, and many more tasks, for 8-12 hours a day, sometimes with no breaks. We take these tasks off of the nurse's hands, and we are not supervised unless we are giving medications. We ARE working for the hospital. How are we not helping?
Please educate yourself before making such an insult on all nursing students in Ontario.

Umm, you said you were there (at the hospital) once a week til the end - that's hardly "working."

And you keep mentioning your home care business but you don't even have employees or clients so I would caution you not to crow so much about "running a business."

Most of the people posting here have worked as nurses and several also as nursing educators so we speak from experience of dealing with students and staff who really need to be corrected - not given fluffy compliments.

milesims · Apr 13, 2016

Worker = employee. Not a student. Employees are invested in the end product offered by their employer in successful companies (again, the Harris book that I mentioned, really fascinating).
I never paid anyone to work for free while in school; thus, I don't group "students" with "workers" from a sociological or business perspective. I would suspect that what you are experiencing is not the norm. Maybe it's a Canadian thing? I cannot say as I am in the US and only have experience in that system. A lot of experience. Lol

It is a Canadian thing. I don't know about the U.S., but I speak from a Canadian perspective and believe me, we ARE workers from the LITERAL definition of worker, which is, "a person or animal that works, in particular."

If you mean employee, then the definition is "An individual who works part-time or full-time under a contract of employment, whether oral or written, express or implied, and has recognized rights and duties." We did sign a contract, we did agree to work a certain amount of hours within a week, and we have Liability Insurance and work under the hospital. The school takes money from us to "set this all up."

We are technically employees. You could call us "interns" or "volunteers," or whatever you want from a business perspective.

milesims · Apr 13, 2016

Umm, you said you were there (at the hospital) once a week til the end - that's hardly "working."
And you keep mentioning your home care business but you don't even have employees or clients so I would caution you not to crow so much about "running a business."
Most of the people posting here have worked as nurses and several also as nursing educators so we speak from experience of dealing with students and staff who really need to be corrected - not given fluffy compliments.

If you actually read my comments, we work 8-12 hours a week during the school year. In the summer, we work FULL-TIME, 8-12 hours a day, for a full month. How would you like to pay somebody $1600 a year to do that, and work for free, for four years?

And as for my business, I already have my own office in a medical facility, a $3000 grant from the government, my brochures, business cards, licensing, ownership of the LITERAL business, and many more complicated matters I don't want to explain. So I definitely do own the business, and I wouldn't have received the grant and mentoring if it didn't have a chance at success.

I'm hiring in two weeks, and accepting clients in June. I already have many clients that are interested, a social worker referring my company, and 4 other referral systems in place. I'm also looking to get accreditation in 6 months.

If you've never run a business, I wouldn't crow so much about somebody else's business. Starting up a business IS running a business, and I'll crow all I want.

Editorial Team / Moderator · Apr 13, 2016

And we have strayed far off topic. If we could focus on the topic at hand, that would be fabulous. Thanks, all.

elkpark · Apr 13, 2016

If you actually read my comments, we work 8-12 hours a week during the school year. In the summer, we work FULL-TIME, 8-12 hours a day, for a full month. How would you like to pay somebody $1600 a year to do that, and work for free, for four years?
And as for my business, I already have my own office in a medical facility, a $3000 grant from the government, my brochures, business cards, licensing, ownership of the LITERAL business, and many more complicated matters I don't want to explain. So I definitely do own the business, and I wouldn't have received the grant and mentoring if it didn't have a chance at success.
I'm hiring in two weeks, and accepting clients in June. I already have many clients that are interested, a social worker referring my company, and 4 other referral systems in place. I'm also looking to get accreditation in 6 months.
If you've never run a business, I wouldn't crow so much about somebody else's business. Starting up a business IS running a business, and I'll crow all I want.

I attended a hospital-based diploma school. We did two fulls days a week of clinical the first year (11 months of study/year -- we got two weeks off at Xmas and two weeks off in the summer), three days a week the second year, and four days a week the third year. I paid tuition to the school. At no point did the hospital or I have any illusions that I was "working." I was a nursing student getting supervised clinical experience as part of my nursing education. How did I like it? I was v. happy to have the opportunity to attend a highly regarded nursing program and get such an excellent education.

Editorial Team / Moderator · Apr 13, 2016

Midterm evals are this week... They will definitely get the message after that!

How did it go, nursemeanie?