Stop the preceptor madness!

myoglobin, ASN, BSN, MSN · Jan 30, 2017

A few corrections to response above as perhaps I wasn't clear. My tuition is paid up to 5k per year by my job hence additional debt isn't an issue. Our rent includes our utilities,all furniture even the silverware and we didn't have to pay a deposit on the home. It is a good deal for the Orlando area for a home. My SO of 25 years wanted a pool and frankly a home without one would cost just as much in this area. My significant other took the 40 per hour job rather than the 120k job because it was a 30 minute rather than 120 min commute it was her decision to make not mine. My point was that she was able to find reasonable employment with her education. As for being mediocre, well it takes everything I have to be a mediocre ICU nurse including not taking lunch or breaks only to enrich the most profitable hospital system in the United States. Also it is physically breaking me to the point in a few years I might not be able to work at all. Instead, If the best I can do is to become a mediocre psych NP who at least realizes his dream of living in Kauai how does "the world" lose? Either way vulnerable patients, ICU or mental health will get a mediocre nurse. Most of us are mediocre by definition. It isn't a badge of shame but rather an accurate description of the universe. In high school I trained year round and ate a specialized diet just to be a mediocre athlete who barely made varsity in his chosen sports of cross country and track. I studied constantly and never went on dates or spent time with friends or family just to be a mediocre student. Yes I have made questionable choices but who hasn't?

I was trying to refocus the thread on the central theme of the OP concerning the challenges of finding preceptors and how it is an intrinsic aspect of the flexibility of the distance education process. Unlike some here appear to be I am thankful for the opportunity to obtain more education which wouldn't exist for many including myself were it not for distance education.

Aromatic · Jan 30, 2017

Yeah it sucks that some schools screw students over by not providing the full education, but you know, usually one of two things happened. 1. they did not do their research. Yes, its hard to find all answers online, but one quick search will show how much some of these schools suck and what not to do. or 2, they were such poor students and workers they just couldnt get into a real school.

Survival of the fittest.

myoglobin, ASN, BSN, MSN · Jan 31, 2017

While I agree that no school should "screw" their students I don't believe that they have an obligation to find preceptors. It simply isn't realistic (or even necessarily optimal) for them to do so. I simply want my school to provide me with the requisite education to sit for the certification exam along with a reasonable education with which to pass. On the other hand it would be useful to compensate preceptors from sort of "clinical adjunct fund" which would at least provide some compensation for their efforts. In addition, a national registry of APRN's willing to serve as preceptors would be quite useful. Personally, if and when I graduate I will be happy to serve as a preceptor in my home based tele psych business in Kauai so long as students don't mind my pajama pants, and scented candles, and frequent swimming breaks.

LessValuableNinja · Jan 31, 2017

While I agree that no school should "screw" their students I don't believe that they have an obligation to find preceptors. It simply isn't realistic (or even necessarily optimal) for them to do so. I simply want my school to provide me with the requisite education to sit for the certification exam along with a reasonable education with which to pass. On the other hand it would be useful to compensate preceptors from sort of "clinical adjunct fund" which would at least provide some compensation for their efforts. In addition, a national registry of APRN's willing to serve as preceptors would be quite useful. Personally, if and when I graduate I will be happy to serve as a preceptor in my home based tele psych business in Kauai so long as students don't mind my pajama pants, and scented candles, and frequent swimming breaks.

My preceptor was compensated by both their employer and the university.

Jules A, MSN · Jan 31, 2017

My preceptor was compensated by both their employer and the university.

Very nice! But by their employer you don't mean just their regular salary do you?

allnurses Guide · Jan 31, 2017

While I agree that no school should "screw" their students I don't believe that they have an obligation to find preceptors. It simply isn't realistic (or even necessarily optimal) for them to do so.

And you base this assumption on what?

The precepting experience has been demonstrated in the literature to be of vital importance to the role socialization of novice NPs. Additionally, I think most practicing experienced NPs and NP educators would agree that the quality of the clinical education component is an important factor in the success of novice NPs.

Optimal? Optimal for who? The programs looking to collect tuition for as many people as possible? It is absolutely "realistic" that programs not admit more students then they are able to ensure a quality education for. That's why most quality programs don't.

K-Nicole · Jan 31, 2017

I find most of the comments on this thread VERY disappointing and embarrassing to our profession. We as fellow nurses are suppose to nurture and support each other. One of the very basis of nursing is SUPPOSED to be COMPASSION. Getting my BSN was a career change for me. I had an excellent every growing career working in private and public sector as a City Planner BUT I wanted to get more meaning out of my days and serve a better purpose. I now enjoy precepting new graduate nurses on my unit. I have never in my life seen so much bullying and so many people trying to prove they are better than each other. Its absolutely childish and appalling. We wonder why nurses aren't treated as professionals...because the majority act like spiteful children with no manners.

There is nothing wrong with seeking help on this site. That is what this site is for. To support each other, not bring each other down. And to the person saying that online learning is second rate and for people who can't get into real school, that is just absurd. I went to brick and mortar university for both of my BS degrees and they were both HIGHLY competitive. I did an Accelerated BSN in person and I was one of 50 applicants to get accepted and over 700 applied!! I have a 4.0 gpa from both degrees. HOWEVER, I am choosing to go to an online school for my FNP because in order to go in person, I am now forced to get my DNP which takes 4 years. I don't want to be a bedside nurse for 4 more years. I want to get my masters, become an FNP in two years, get a job and THEN I can continue on to get my DNP. The "real" schools are after more money and have phased out the MSN options for nurse practitioners. They are blaming it on the regulatory body, but that is not true. So far, they are only requiring that CRNAs have their DNP by 2022. There is still no plan in place to phase out the masters prepared NP. In addition, I was hesitant to go to the school I chose because I never heard of it. However, I am going to trust the fact that they are accredited in good standing AND I personally know three very competent NPs whom I respect and they all graduated from this school. One day on my unit I decided to ask the NPs where they went, and 3 went to the one I chose. I also know that there are several practitioners who enjoy precepting and there is nothing wrong with asking around on this site. I am so disgusted with the profession that I believed was going to be full of kind and giving people. Those who do not want to life each other up and help others are in the wrong line of work.

allnurses Guide · Feb 1, 2017

I find most of the comments on this thread VERY disappointing and embarrassing to our profession. We as fellow nurses are suppose to nurture and support each other. One of the very basis of nursing is SUPPOSED to be COMPASSION.

We are supposed to? Perhaps, with some of the experience, providing good "nurture and support" means being honest with individuals for the good of the profession. A little analogy: if we were soldiers fighting on the front lines, who would be providing the best support for the novice, the experienced soldier that ensured novice soldiers received the best possible training or the inexperienced solider that just blindly told the other novice soldiers "you are all just going to be great out there probably the best ever".

Perspective makes a big difference, as as below, sometimes the best advice is the advice you don't want to hear.

FWIW I go out of my way to help teach and educate but I never said any oath to be blindly compassionate to other nurses.

Its absolutely childish and appalling. We wonder why nurses aren't treated as professionals...because the majority act like spiteful children with no manners.

It is interesting, I see it the exact opposite way: spiteful children with no manners are oft the result of never being told no by their parents/educators.

There is nothing wrong with seeking help on this site. That is what this site is for. To support each other, not bring each other down.

Again, sometimes the best help you can get is not what you want to hear. Everyone here has their opinion, and perhaps with some experience and perspective, some of those opinions might not be so foreign to you anymore.

I am so disgusted with the profession that I believed was going to be full of kind and giving people. Those who do not want to life each other up and help others are in the wrong line of work.

It's not going to be any better at the APN level, if that's what you are looking for. Medicine is humbling.

Jules A, MSN · Feb 1, 2017

However, I am going to trust the fact that they are accredited in good standing AND I personally know three very competent NPs whom I respect and they all graduated from this school. One day on my unit I decided to ask the NPs where they went, and 3 went to the one I chose.

Trusting the fact that a school is accredited and in good standing means the quality of education is good is like trusting the fox with the key to the henhouse. I went to a well respected brick and mortar university and the education was not impressive, the quality of graduates is not impressive, few of the instructors had any NP experience at all and their admission criteria has gotten even more lax in the years since. Personally I think the comprehensive programs with stringent admission criteria are few and far between and that has nothing to do with my fellow nurses but all do with the profit mongering key players such as boards, certifications, school associations in this profession who build on each and of course the ever present hiding behind holistic that nurses are famous for.

Does the fact that on your unit alone there are at least 3 RNs in NP school lead you to even consider that the profession is becoming oversaturated? Imagine how many in the whole hospital? The NP market is in fact becoming saturated and there are a whole host of anticipated problems when that happens.

K-Nicole · Feb 1, 2017

Jules,

Thank you. You actually supported my comment that it doesn't matter which school you go to. What matters is how much work and dedication the student puts into it...I know one student in the local university and she said the program is so easy it's a joke as compared to BSN school. They only accept 20'students per cohort and they place you with preceptors. But that doesn't mean she is getting a great education.

Also, there are not 3 nurses in NP school on my unit. Im the only one. There are 3 practicing NPs that round on my unit and all recommended the school I chose. As far as over saturation, does that mean no one else should pursue their career goals? I don't agree and there are actually over 250 NP job postings in my city alone.

in any way, I'm not here to argue, simply here to state that there is nothing wrong with looking for preceptors and that is ridiculous for someone to get angry that someone is asking for help with that. Also looking for preceptors does not mean you are not going to be a competent, quality provider, which seems to be what everyone is ranting about on this thread.

Im going to leave it at that and exit myself from reading further rude comments.

K-Nicole · Feb 1, 2017

In response to your analogy, I couldn't agree more!!! All I was saying was that the experienced generation should support the next generation. And not be upset that the next generation is asking for help looking for preceptors. They need proper guidance!! Once the first generation retires, there needs to be competent providers to take over.

By no means whatsoever do I think everyone should have this job or everyone "will do great". There are several nurses that I would never trust to care for me or my family and they should not be doing this job either. For example, I was recently hospitalized and I had to literally assess myself. No one even asked how I was feeling or checked my vitals. I checked my own and my systolic was in the 80s. That is scary that the nurses were no where to be found and I was only rounded on ONE time in 12 hours.

I do believe that bedside manner and respect for everyone is important though. Of course competence and dedication to being the best provider you can be is most important.

allnurses Guide · Feb 1, 2017

All I was saying was that the experienced generation should support the next generation. And not be upset that the next generation is asking for help looking for preceptors. They need proper guidance!!

This responsibility of providing support for students falls first on the school, not on the body of practicing NPs or the students themselves. Students shouldn't have to be begging for preceptorships, that is not quality education. Our speaking up about this issue is attempting to help future students.