I very often read posts on this board which complain about the staff nurses. I was a nursing student, too, and I know that such criticisms can be valid but you should know that a lot of us really dig having students around and look for opportunities for you to learn.
I work mid-shift (which means that my shift overlaps both days and nights) and I recently was helping out a colleague who had a student assigned to her. We had just intubated a patient and were tending to our post-tube tasks (e.g. OG tube, Foley, etc).
The student was just standing at the end of the bed so I looked at him and said, "Alright, time to do an OG tube."
He responded, "Um, I don't know if I'm allowed to when my instructor isn't around."
I replied, "Well, I don't know either. Please close the curtain and either come in or step out."
He closed the curtain and tentatively stepped inside at which point my colleague handed him the OG kit. He stepped up to the HOB and we talked a bit about NG vs OG, indications and contraindications, followed by guidance as to what to do.
A couple of minutes later, he'd dropped his first OG on an intubated patient.
I still don't know if he was or was not allowed by his program to drop the tube but those opportunities are relatively rare and I figured he should take advantage of it when it presented itself...
So, young Padawans, know that some of us staff nurses are actually invested in your learning... not because we have to but because we like to.
Disagree all you like; it isn't your job to teach students. I'm going to assume you are a bedside staff nurse. Reread your employer's job description for your position, and if you please, can you quote the passage where it states that your role includes teaching nursing students?
Are you serious? Are you telling me that you seriously believe that bedside nurses should take a completely hands off approach to students assigned to their patients?
I hate to break it to you, but our "performance factors" as we call them don't say a whole helluva lot. It doesn't even mention teamwork except for "helps others as needed." It doesn't mention, even tangentially, the concept of delegation, although that's assumed thru the NPA. No where does it mention orienting new hires, but that's common, too. Really, your total burden of proof of our role is through a job description?
My community health rotation was with a home health nurse who had me assigned to her. Same system I currently work in. I rode in her car with not an instructor in sight. I'm quite sure I wasn't in her job description.
Use common sense for goodness' sake.
Like I said, if you don't want to, don't. But don't tell other nurses that they CAN'T. It would make for a very dismal school experience for all students if nurses didn't say boo to students on the floor ever.
Being that this is a public forum and we really do not know "Who" we are arguing with, I wont continue to pound the same points over and over.
When I am assigned a student nurse I will give them the best possible exposure as I can. I believe that the OP will also (as well as others). Not my job, but it is what I owe for all the nurses that did this for me. I will always protect my patients but if I can walk a student through a procedure then I will do so.
I would like to apologize to the OP for most of this argument. Some valid points have been made but most of the posts have been just baiting in style. Who wants to go fishing??????
You don't want to help students, then don't.
Students, look at some of the discussion you see here and pick what kind of nurse you want to be.
Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.
Disagree all you like; it isn't your job to teach students. I'm going to assume you are a bedside staff nurse. Reread your employer's job description for your position, and if you please, can you quote the passage where it states that your role includes teaching nursing students?
I'll bet if you check your job description, you will find something to the effect of "and any other duties as assigned". Teaching nursing students would fall under this very broad allowance of job duties. I work in an area where we rarely see nursing students, and when we do, it's primarily observation. However, I have always offered students the opportunity to insert the patient's foley if indicated- why not have one of their first tries be when a patient is under anesthesia? The last time I had a student, when I made the offer she stated right away that she had not been signed off by her instructor. Fine, not a problem. This student knew what she could and couldn't do- which should be a requirement of every student. However, had she been allowed to/signed off to, I would have gladly walked her through a foley insertion because I believe teaching students does indeed meet that all inclusive expansion of the job description.
One would be journal of creative nursing... Ebsco coaching vs supervision... Il get back to you with IOM; however, a common theme across various nursing landscapes is to avoid environments of shaming and blaming, etc... I would suggest do this or get out is shaming. And, as a previous poster elucidated, patients under care are their patients for that time... Same applies to a student under supervision, with that said, a nurse should extend equal sensitivity to the student as he/she would to a patient. Although I am currently a student, I had a career prior to nursing and I am also educated, which qualifies me to bring some life experience to the thread table.
you are misrepresenting the OP, he didn't say the student had to do the procedure or leave, only that he needed to close the curtain and make up his mind if he was staying or leaving.
Actually you are misrepresenting the OPs post. He said close the curtain and either step in or step out... This after putting the student on the spot
Same applies to a student under supervision, with that said, a nurse should extend equal sensitivity to the student as he/she would to a patient. Although I am currently a student, I had a career prior to nursing and I am also educated, which qualifies me to bring some life experience to the thread table.
Your comparison of student and patient treatment by nurses is almost laughable, especially in light of your thinly-veiled insult regarding the intelligence level and reading comprehension skills of other posters here.
Booyah to your "life experience." You still know nothing about nursing.
I don't think it was thinly veiled, I have been pretty direct which is why admin removed some of my posts. But needless to say, the OP is wrong, and so is everyone defending him. Veiled attempt... There is nothing latent about my approach to stimulate thoughtful engagement. How do u define nursing...does the ing part at the end of nurse imply the act of being a nurse? You are right... I don't no what nursing is... I am preparing to be a nurse
You also obviously missed my point too.. Which is the patient-nurse interaction is also useful to promoting positive nurse-nurse interaction... One transcends the other and one builds off the other and leads to more success in the other.
One would be journal of creative nursing... Ebsco coaching vs supervision... Il get back to you with IOM; however, a common theme across various nursing landscapes is to avoid environments of shaming and blaming, etc... I would suggest do this or get out is shaming. And, as a previous poster elucidated, patients under care are their patients for that time... Same applies to a student under supervision, with that said, a nurse should extend equal sensitivity to the student as he/she would to a patient. Although I am currently a student, I had a career prior to nursing and I am also educated, which qualifies me to bring some life experience to the thread table.
Exactly this. Telling the student to close the curtain "come in or step out" is rude as hell, and the insertion of a feeding tube not urgent enough to warrant being so short. Like I said before, is that also how the OP talks to patients? Or to complete strangers? I doubt it. Well, if you wouldn't talk that way to a complete stranger, then you shouldn't talk that way to students or coworkers or anyone else. There's a power differential between the staff nurse and the student, which the OP is integrating when they talk that way to the student. The whole original post of this thread is dripping with it, by the way the OP is referring to the audience as "young padawans" and making reference to the idea that he doesn't have to be vested in the learning of students.
Exactly this. Telling the student to close the curtain "come in or step out" is rude as hell, and the insertion of a feeding tube not urgent enough to warrant being so short. Like I said before, is that also how the OP talks to patients? Or to complete strangers? I doubt it. Well, if you wouldn't talk that way to a complete stranger, then you shouldn't talk that way to students or coworkers or anyone else. There's a power differential between the staff nurse and the student, which the OP is integrating when they talk that way to the student. The whole original post of this thread is dripping with it, by the way the OP is referring to the audience as "young padawans" and making reference to the idea that he doesn't have to be vested in the learning of students.
To you it may not be urgent but to the pt and nurse it is. Since the pt was just intubated the nurse needs to get all the other tubes in immediately. After the OG is in the pt gets post intubation films and now they only need one instead of two. Then it's imperative that the nurse not only has the pt restrained but usually started on pain meds and sedatives. There is a lot to do once someone is intubated and there is nothing rude about asking if they're coming or going cause there's stuff to do.
the OP wasn't wrong you just don't like his attitude. and you continue to miss understand/misinterpret his wording.
I don't think it was thinly veiled, I have been pretty direct which is why admin removed some of my posts. But needless to say, the OP is wrong, and so is everyone defending him. Veiled attempt... There is nothing latent about my approach to stimulate thoughtful engagement. How do u define nursing...does the ing part at the end of nurse imply the act of being a nurse? You are right... I don't no what nursing is... I am preparing to be a nurse
Being that this is a public forum and we really do not know "Who" we are arguing with, I wont continue to pound the same points over and over.
dudette10, MSN, RN
3,530 Posts
Are you serious? Are you telling me that you seriously believe that bedside nurses should take a completely hands off approach to students assigned to their patients?
I hate to break it to you, but our "performance factors" as we call them don't say a whole helluva lot. It doesn't even mention teamwork except for "helps others as needed." It doesn't mention, even tangentially, the concept of delegation, although that's assumed thru the NPA. No where does it mention orienting new hires, but that's common, too. Really, your total burden of proof of our role is through a job description?
My community health rotation was with a home health nurse who had me assigned to her. Same system I currently work in. I rode in her car with not an instructor in sight. I'm quite sure I wasn't in her job description.
Use common sense for goodness' sake.
Like I said, if you don't want to, don't. But don't tell other nurses that they CAN'T. It would make for a very dismal school experience for all students if nurses didn't say boo to students on the floor ever.