So, I'm sure many of you have read the various threads around here such as:
1. Things you'd like to tell your co-workers/fellow students/charge nurse etc.
2. Do nurses eat their young?
3. Drama at work
I'm a new nursing student as of this semester, and between reading these types of posts, talking to my sister who is a nurse, and spending time at the hospital, I believe I might have gained some insight as to why some people view the field of nursing as so vicious and hateful:
Everyone thinks the other people are causing the problem...never themselves!
Has it ever occured to you, that the people griping about all the 'dumb' and 'worthless' people they have to deal with at work and school might be talking about you? It never seems to be the case in these threads. Everyone spends post after post talking about how everyone sucks but themselves, and never considering that they are speaking about fellow human beings who are just as worthy of compassion and understanding as our patients.
Since I am a new student nurse, we are spending a lot of time talking about things like compassion, ethics, and our interpersonal skills. Isn't this information taught for a reason? It doesn't only apply to our patients, no?
What is it about the field of nursing that makes nurses so awful to each other? During the course of my life, I have already had several different hobbies, experiences and jobs. I have:
1. Played baseball semi-professionally. Was offered a spot on a minor league team.
2. Been a claims adjustor
3. Toured with many bands across the country playing drums and bass, and done production work in a studio.
4. Worked at a helpdesk, and gotten certified as a network administrator.
I bring this up only to wonder aloud what is it about nursing that makes this environment so hateful? I have never experienced the kind of competitiveness, hostility, rumor-mongering and outright stroke-causing anger as I have when pursuing a nursing degree. Based on what I have read here, and seen and heard from other nurses, it only gets worse when one enters the field itself.
Why? Is there no compassion and empathy left over for each other, once we are done with our patients?
Many people here angrily shout at people who dare to mention the 'nursing shortage'. Why is that? Why are so many of you so hateful saying things like 'schools these days are just churning out the worst grads ever!' What is different now than when you were in school? Yes, there is a nursing shortage. This has nothing to do with why there is a shortage. That is not the issue, and you do yourself a disservice and undermine nursing when you gripe at a new nurse who is rightfully under the impression that their career choice is valuable and in demand. What on earth motivates that type of behavior? As I said, I am fairly experienced for my age and I have never EVER seen this type of attitude in any other career. Consider that you might be contributing to the shortage by being so awful towards someone who is simply looking for information!
I know this post is somewhat of a ramble, and I am sorry for that. But I am proud of my choice to become a nurse, and I hope that I can help to contribute a positive atmosphere both in my class and in my place of work. Please consider that when you gripe about anything and everything having to do with your work and school, that someone else might be just as unfairly angry and hateful of YOU, and I'm sure that is not a good feeling for you.
P.S. Plato reminds us, "be kind...for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle".
If I'm being honest, you've entered the world of women. All your past jobs seems like they would be predominately men or a good mix. In nursing, its 92% women. You put all that estrogen in one space and it can get explosive. It almost hearkens back to evolutionary biology where females must compete with each other to be the queen, and sometimes the gloves come off and they will do everything in their power to destroy the competition. Don't get me wrong, men are competitive as well. But typically we do it overtly, hit each other :), literally make it a competition and talk about it, whereas women often are sweet and cheerful to your face only because society has told them it isn't proper for a women to be that aggressive. At any rate, there are d-bags in every vocation! Just gotta learn to ignore em and move on!
HotDrew your post made me laugh.... mostly because their is so much truth to it. Women typically *not always* are so much more passive-aggressive in our ways of dealing with frustration and in a work enviorment (or any enviorment for that matter). To have someone who will just come up and express verbally that they are having an issue with something can we please adjust is a rarity.
But hypothetical question... say you are working on a unit with all male nurses and the tension builds.... what happens then. brawling in the med room??? :smiley_abThat could get mighty interesting for sure! If only we all had a little more time on our hands and could have a Wii set up where we could play virtual boxing with each other
there will be people griping about each other, back-stabbing, etc in every field. you will find it to some degree in every nursing work environment---you will 1)have to file grievance after grievance, 2)put up with it or 3)get out of the field! sadly, you can not and will not change people by bickering about their griping. i speak from many years of experience. personally, i think it's the enormous stress that's the cause of such griping or hatefulness to others. i mean the kind of stress that comes with the possibility of killing folks with some med error or the inability to detect a certain symptom that results in a death.
I like the way you think. I see from what you've written that you realize that you have a lot to learn, as we all do at any given point in our lives, but that you also have compassion for others - both your coworkers and patients. It seems you try not to assume anything and give everyone a fair shot. I can definitely get behind that.
Perhaps you should print your post out and reread it every few months. As a second year student, a new grad, 1 year in, etc. It may be a good way to keep yourself grounded if your head gets away from you as your nursing experience becomes more intense.
that's just how your post struck me. i was simply sharing with you my emotional response to the tone of your post. you are welcome to examine the possible reasons for it yourself. i have no attachment to doing so.
i think i'm confused...what part of my post did you construe as 'tooting my horn'? are you referring to my experience? i mentioned it only because i have a versatile frame of reference when i say that there appears to be an aspect of nursing that is, to me, nearly unique to nursing.
yes, i was referring to your listed experience. i think you'll find that nursing is full of people with a great deal of life experience, including myself, who do not share your opinion that horizontal violence is unique to nursing, and, to me, it did come off as a bit of horn-tooting. again, feel free to examine that for yourself if you wish.
have you read the threads i mentioned? i am not (and specifically did not mention) talking about having issues with a co-worker who is not pulling his or her weight, or is dangerous to their patients. i am not talking about the admittedly many people we do and will come across who make the job very difficult. it's how we handle those people that matters. some of the things said here, and that i have heard are downright cruel, and reduce the person in question to nothing more than a target for some of the worst vitriol. that's uncalled for, and specifically what i was referencing.
i've read a lot of the threads you mentioned, and many more that you didn't. i'm well aware of the issues raised in them. again, i do not see horizontal violence as being unique to nursing. that has not been my experience.
again, i'm not sure where i was endorsing mediocrity. maybe i misunderstand your point here?
i am extremely open minded about people's varying situations. what i am questioning, is why is anger an acceptable response to that? (your own words!)
because people's lives are at stake.
i have worked and been around countless incompetent people in my life. i will work and be around many more. what can i do? report issues when applicable, be supportive of fellow human beings, and keep my patients safe and comfortable. any more than that is extra-curricular activity and i am not interested.
and that is your prerogative.
thank you! as i said before my only hope at this point is that it's been at least somewhat of a filter for people who don't really want to be here. just a few weeks in and of course i can already tell that a few have slipped through. again though, that's not my problem, and i don't know their circumstances. hopefully either my impressions are wrong, or they can turn it around! if not, those are the types of problems that often resolve themselves. if not, there's only so much one can really 'do' about it.
not quite. for example, after i explained very kindly to the student that the solumedrol would be in a little glass vial labeled as such, not in a vial labeled "nitroglycerin", i told the clinical instructor what the student had said. i felt an obligation to report unsafe behavior in the clinical area to the clinical instructor, rather than just shrugging my shoulders assuming there is only so much i could do about it, or keeping my mouth shut in the name of being "supportive" to the student.
in addition, i've never bought into the idea that "women are catty" any more than i buy into the idea that "men are pigs". i think both are a copout for explaining away bad behavior, and i think people are capable of rising above such bad behavior, despite their x and y chromosomes.
Congrats on getting into the program and I really hope you can maintain your positive attitude.
It really depends on where you work and sometimes sadly you work with people that are just plain out mean and the more you spend time with them, it tends to rub off on you. I try to be really nice to everyone but I have to be honest after working 8 hours on the floor I turn a little crabby after all the crap I put up with. Once on the floor I think you will sort of see our point of view. Sometimes you can be the most awesome nurse out there and people will still do some dumb things. My preceptor is very awesome and I love her but I have seen some of the things people try to pull on her. You have to remember that we are dealing with people. Some people are :angryfire and some are and then some are nice. My hope is that when you see crap and deal with crap you keep your positive attitude and never say oh I am not that way or I am never going to be that way because sometimes that type of attitude sneaks up and we become those people that we do not like.
That's just how your post struck me. I was simply sharing with you my emotional response to the tone of your post. You are welcome to examine the possible reasons for it yourself. I have no attachment to doing so.
I just find it interesting that no one else saw it this way, yet you did. If there's no actual reason for your impression, then so be it.
Yes, I was referring to your listed experience. I think you'll find that nursing is full of people with a great deal of life experience, including myself, who do not share your opinion that horizontal violence is unique to nursing
Given the other replies in this thread, at least a few people seem to agree that it is a serious problem in the field of nursing, often times more so than other fields. Not to mention all the discussion of nurses eating their young.
If horizontal violence is not endemic to nursing, why do you think so many people are under the impression that it is?
Because people's lives are at stake.
This is not unique to nursing.
I felt an obligation to report unsafe behavior in the clinical area to the clinical instructor, rather than just shrugging my shoulders assuming there is only so much I could do about it, or keeping my mouth shut in the name of being "supportive" to the student.
I'm assuming you read my post where I specifically mentioned that reporting unsafe behavior was something I felt obviously needed to be done? I'm not sure who/what you were disagreeing with here.
Here it is again:
What can I do? Report issues when applicable, be supportive of fellow human beings, and keep my patients safe and comfortable. Any more than that is extra-curricular activity and I am NOT interested.
My hope is that when you see crap and deal with crap you keep your positive attitude and never say oh I am not that way or I am never going to be that way because sometimes that type of attitude sneaks up and we become those people that we do not like.
This is definitely something I think a lot about. Small behavior changes over a number of years can be very hard to detect.
I do know that I have been burned out on jobs before, and keeping a positive attitude in that situation can be very difficult. I just feel that we owe it to how the patients see us to do what we can to keep the problems off the floor as much as possible. As I mentioned before, lives being at stake is not unique to nursing, so that excuse only goes so far before someone might begin to rely on it out of laziness and the desire to lash out at people. (not saying you or anyone here does this, but it doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility that it would happen to a given person)
This is boring, and I am not going to get bogged down in your little red herrings. If your need to be validated outweighs your desire to be open to the experiences of others, then you and I will never have a meaningful conversation. Have fun discussing the topic with only those who agree with you.
This is boring, and I am not going to get bogged down in your little red herrings. If your need to be validated outweighs your desire to be open to the experiences of others, then you and I will never have a meaningful conversation. Have fun discussing the topic with only those who agree with you.
I think you're inadvertently proving my point. What am I saying that is upsetting you so much?
There was a study a few years ago that showed that 83% of nurses come from alcoholic families. We're all codependent, obsessive-compulsive, depressed control freaks. With estrogen! True story!
This is definitely something I think a lot about. Small behavior changes over a number of years can be very hard to detect.
I do know that I have been burned out on jobs before, and keeping a positive attitude in that situation can be very difficult. I just feel that we owe it to how the patients see us to do what we can to keep the problems off the floor as much as possible. As I mentioned before, lives being at stake is not unique to nursing, so that excuse only goes so far before someone might begin to rely on it out of laziness and the desire to lash out at people. (not saying you or anyone here does this, but it doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility that it would happen to a given person)
I see things a little differently. I see it as I am a nurse because I wanted to make a difference in someones' life. So its really hard for me to put up with certain things. I don't owe anyone anything, if anything they owe me for trying to make them feel better, and sadly alot of the times its them. Yes I know sometimes its me with an attitude problem but alot of the times some people just don't realize that you are trying to help them. They make you the enemy. I've only been on the floor a short time and I have already had patients that are mean to me and then they realize hey she is trying to help me that the attitude changes. Some never realize it. Like my instructor said in nursing you have to be the bad (undercovergood) guy. In my case I can see why some nurses are the way they are, they are attacked all the time; how can you stay happy for-the-good-of-the-patient when all they want to do is give you trouble. Its frustrating! But no job is perfect and when you are dealing with people anything goes.
and then some are nice. My hope is that when you see crap and deal with crap you keep your positive attitude and never say oh I am not that way or I am never going to be that way because sometimes that type of attitude sneaks up and we become those people that we do not like. 
I think you're inadvertently proving my point. What am I saying that is upsetting you so much?
SweetLemon
213 Posts
HotDrew your post made me laugh.... mostly because their is so much truth to it. Women typically *not always* are so much more passive-aggressive in our ways of dealing with frustration and in a work enviorment (or any enviorment for that matter). To have someone who will just come up and express verbally that they are having an issue with something can we please adjust is a rarity.
But hypothetical question... say you are working on a unit with all male nurses and the tension builds.... what happens then. brawling in the med room??? :smiley_abThat could get mighty interesting for sure! If only we all had a little more time on our hands and could have a Wii set up where we could play virtual boxing with each other