Socialized Medicine: The Argument to Support Moving Forward

Many people have a misunderstanding that if the government funds health care then THEY control our health care - a concept which in all reality is impossible. What they do provide is funding for hospitals and any facility that delivers health care. It's up to the facilities to decide how to spend the funds allocated to them. Nurses Announcements Archive Article

They will run things as they do now except they would have a lot more input and would not be controlled by the insurance companies as they are today.

There would be a department within the Government whose main task would be to establish performance-improving strategies for the hospitals and a timeline for them to be met. Guidelines would be implemented for hospitals to follow and protocols would be initiated by the hospital itself to help them achieve the goals set out by the government. The aim being that care will be standardized across the country. This meaning that hospitals who provide substandard care now will be expected to improve their standards of care in the future. Of course, this would not be achieved quickly nor would it happen overnight, and yes it would cost money, but in the long run, it would be cost effective. The main aim is to improve the quality of care to the patient and at the same time establishing across the board initiatives which all hospitals would need to follow in order to ensure all hospitals are providing the same standard and quality of care. Independent companies would be established to govern the government for example in the UK they have an independent company known as NICE,

Quote
"NICE is an independent organization responsible for providing national guidance on promoting good health and preventing and treating"

More emphasis would be made on care in the community, focusing on keeping the chronically ill out of the hospital and in their own homes. Health education would play a major role focusing on prevention rather than cure. For example, some of our expensive hospital beds are often taken up with the chronically ill which could well have been managed in their own home, freeing up valuable nursing time which can now be spent with the acutely ill. Opening up more opportunities for nurses to develop their skills and utilize their education for something other than carrying out orders from Doctors

NICE | The National Institute for Health and Care Excellence

Diabetes can be effectively managed in the home with a team of skilled health professionals, accessing the hospitals for major illnesses rather than glucose control. Nurses could play a major role with diabetics in the community, after all, a large part of our formal nursing education focuses on health education, which a lot of us struggle to find time to implement in the hospital environment

Patients will be more compliant with their medication because it is now affordable. They would not be worrying shall I pay the bills or shall I pay for my medication. This would mean Asthmatics, Diabetics, COPDers wouldn't be having the same crisis situations finding themselves in hospital costing a fortune.

Of course, there will always be non-compliant patients, this group will never change easily, but my question is would we see a reduction in non-compliant patients if we made medication affordable. If we had no co-pays for hospital, tests, procedures, scans or doctors visits? My guess is yes we would see a reduction because some of those non-compliant patients are in this situation through no fault of their own but because of financial constraints either due to a poorly paid job or their pension doesn't quite cover everything they need.

Health professionals could more readily access the schools, youth groups with a lot more health education, again focusing on prevention rather than cure. "Catch em, Young".

I am sure you will be saying to yourself we have all this anyway yes but it would be "free" to establishments affording them to spend their funds elsewhere within the education system but at the same time ensuring we start our children's knowledge of a healthy lifestyle off earlier.

Everybody could afford to be pregnant and access high-quality pregnancy care. It would not only be the rich who are able to afford expensive pre-natal care, classes and education it would be available to all without further cost. Pregnancy care is an ideal opportunity for health care professionals to discuss dental care, diet, smoking cessation, birth control, pap smears the list is endless of what you could provide in health education to the younger generation which they can take through life. This population has probably had not much in the way of health care since their teenage years so are ripe for further education, again focusing on prevention rather than cure.

Of course, we all have heard the horror stories of the NHS there are plenty of them, there are more of the negative kind than the positive kind mainly because we focus in on the negative more readily. The Media are only too happy to report stories which involve sensationalism and negative press than to focus in on the 'nice' stories because 'nice' stories don't sell newspapers. Have you always noticed how bad press is always top of the news whereas the nicer stories are thrown In at the end?

The UK is one small country, whereas the 50 states of America are almost like 50 countries so if we took all the negative press in one day from each of the states of America it would be interesting to see/read how many horror stories we would find from the current medical health care system in the USA. Then we could compare the horror stories to the ones reported from the UK then correlate the figures to establish which country offers greater health care and what cost.

Remember the people who pay insurance here in America it will not cost you any more money unless you choose to take out private health insurance. The difference is it will not cost you one cent more unlike now where there are numerous co-pays for anything you access.

Think about it NO co-pays for:

  • Doctors Visits
  • Blood Draws/lab work
  • Mammograms
  • Pap smears
  • Children's immunizations and check-ups
  • Emergency room visits
  • OT
  • PT
  • Speech and language therapy

The list is endless.

Here is my scenario, Breast Cancer pre menopausal, in the UK a mammogram would not be required until age 52

http://www.cancerhelp.org.uk/help/default_printer_friend.asp?page=3303

Patient would have to prove a need for the mammogram, then would get the treatment recommended by the government.Patient would be offered a lumpectomy and radiation( and maybe standard chemo) through the cancer treatment team. No option to go another center for a second opinion.

UK breast Cancer survival rate lower than the USA. Cost is Zero.....life expectancy is ????

United States, Normal HMO, get mammogram, large invasive tumor found. First opinion suggests a lumpectomy, goes for second opinion a large cancer center. Opportunity to go out of state for third opinion if desired. Mastectomy with immediate reconstruction done ( reconstruction is not done at time of initial surgery) Tumor was too large. Aggressive non fomulary chemotherapy given.

Fast Forward- GYN recommends genetic testing ( not covered in UK) tests positive for BRCA - which is high rate for ovarian cancer. Patient is cancer free.

Cost - $50 for some prescriptions.

For my own selfish reason I prefer when fighting a life threatening disease that I would have options not the state telling my doctor what they can do for me.

That is an excellent outcome but hardly the one that women who delays receiving treatment because they have no insurance or are under insured experience. What about the woman who starts treatment and then loses her job, thus insurance,(I know several people this has happened to) because she is missing so much work. Even if she can scrape together the huge payments to carry COBRA that eventually runs out also. What about the woman who has someone in the family with BRCA and insurance company finds out about it and denies coverage? If you received the finest treatment I am glad but think about you fellow human beings that don't have that opportunity? Insurance companies do horrible things to people everyday that people never even dream of in countries with socialized medicine.
That is an excellent outcome but hardly the one that women who delays receiving treatment because they have no insurance or are under insured experience. What about the woman who starts treatment and then loses her job, thus insurance,(I know several people this has happened to) because she is missing so much work. Even if she can scrape together the huge payments to carry COBRA that eventually runs out also. What about the woman who has someone in the family with BRCA and insurance company finds out about it and denies coverage? If you received the finest treatment I am glad but think about you fellow human beings that don't have that opportunity? Insurance companies do horrible things to people everyday that people never even dream of in countries with socialized medicine.

Great points, in my home state Breast Cancer is covered by the DPH, when I checked my home state I see that other states have similar programs. As far as the BRCA I know for a fact they offer free services.

In my state where 97% are insured why should my benefits suffer because 3 percent choose not to sign up?

Specializes in RN, BSN, CHDN.

[quote=MedSurg32RN;

My last question is if socialized medicine is so wonderful why do nurses from the UK and Australia wish to come to the USA?

Good question but off topic which would take a whole thread to discuss and answer.

Briefly Nursing enables nurses to change countries I dont think it is nursing they come to America for, a lot of UK people want to come to live in America because it is their dream, so if you are a nurse then it is a bonus

Specializes in Acute Care, Rehab, Palliative.

I am Canadian. I thank god every day for the system we have. My daughter was born weighing 1 1/2 lbs. She was in the hospital for 15 weeks and had two years of follow up care. Cost to me = $0. Treatment and anything they needed to do to save her life was never questioned or dictated by anyone.

The last time I went to the ER I was out of there in 40 minutes.

I asked my doctor for a mammogram at the age of 40 and I got one no questions asked.

I am diabetic and I get free eye care, foot care, free diabetic counselling, I was given a free glucose meter and my drugs are mostly covered by my provincial plan.

I never have to worry about losing my home if i am in a car accident or get sick. No one decides my care except me and my doctor. I needed to see a specialist one time and got an appointment within 3 days. All tests were free as was my treatment and I got to pick which specilalist.

I am amazed that people who live in the USA insist they know more about my system than I do.

Madwife,

I respect you bringing this topic up. Perhaps you can set straight some information which maybe disinformation.

Is this true?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article1050197.ece That NHS is the world's third largest employer ?

Are you suggesting that government run health care is more efficient. If it was so wonderful why did you leave?

I agree 100% that health care needs to be changed. In my state health care is mandatory, there are no people denied if they have a pre existing conditions. It is affordable between $150 to $250 a month. There are rules which the insurance companies follow.

Specializes in RN, BSN, CHDN.
Madwife,

I respect you bringing this topic up. Perhaps you can set straight some information which maybe disinformation.

Is this true?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article1050197.ece That NHS is the world's third largest employer ?

Are you suggesting that government run health care is more efficient. If it was so wonderful why did you leave?

I agree 100% that health care needs to be changed. In my state health care is mandatory, there are no people denied if they have a pre existing conditions. It is affordable between $150 to $250 a month. There are rules which the insurance companies follow.

I dont think my reasons for leaving the UK have anything to do with the thread but for the record I did not come to the US to be a nurse I came to the US because I wanted to live here, Nursing is my job.

I care about the healthcare of this country, this thread is a debate and I am not claiming I know everything about socialised medicine here in the US what I am saying is we need to look after our working class who are the ones who are effected more by medical bills.

I really dont understand what your point is about the NHS can you elaborate your point-the article is 5 yrs old can you find something more current

Good question but off topic which would take a whole thread to discuss and answer.

Briefly Nursing enables nurses to change countries I dont think it is nursing they come to America for, a lot of UK people want to come to live in America because it is their dream, so if you are a nurse then it is a bonus

So as I understand it nursing in America had nothing to do with coming here. The times I have visited the UK I always thought it was a beautiful country and had lots of opportunity. I am glad people are able to follow their dream.

Specializes in neurology, cardiology, ED.

"Mr Reid said that the "snapshot" census figures exploded the myth that everyone working in the NHS was a bureaucrat, with 84 per cent of NHS staff directly involved in patient care and managers only making up 3 per cent of the total workforce"

This is from the UK.

I wish it were the case here. If we eliminated all of the customer service representatives, case managers and other pencil pushers needed to simply navigate our healthcare system here, how much would be left for patient care? I'll bet it would beat the system as we have it now!

So people think that socialized medicine is free? Who do you think pays for it? Where do you think the money comes from? TAXES....and people think that its so economical? What has changed? Surely not just because government runs it....Governments are totally inept when it comes to taking control of things....that's why they are always carrying a deficit....because all they do is spend spend spend.....without regard to costs....now if they decide to control costs and you were a doctor would you want them telling you can't earn more than a certain amount?

The whole idea of capitalism is freedom of choice....does socialized medicine follow that tenet? Not on your life....next time you feel your getting freedom of choice under socialilzed medicine ask yourself one question....."Whose paying for the coverage I'm getting for nothing.....sorry folks there are no free lunches....

Specializes in Rehab, Sub Acute.

ok folks, has anyone read the bill proposed?

let’s remember that if hr3200 is passed the government will be acting as the insurance companies, shifting the power from private companies to the government. limiting and dictating the care we are to get, and not starting out with something that is proven to work for a certain aliment, starting with something that may work (and costs alot less)

and the question here is not "do we want healthcare for everyone?" because yes we all do! the question is do you support the proposed bill hr3200, please look for yourself... www.thomas.gov i know it is alot to read and take in, but make a informed descision for yourself!

what this bill proposes, is that all people must have adequate health coverage, and those who still can not afford it, or those who prefer homeopathic care will be fined with an excise tax- sec207 of the hr3200 (homeopathic care is defined as the care of the whole person, not just the symptoms) also taxing employers for not providing adequate health coverage to employees, and at the same time a few large top companies referred to as being exempt from providing adequate health care to employees. that is reason to ask questions!

hr3200 also proposed that we re-define the term "health care plan" for those 65 years of age and older, to include "end of life care", for anyone 65 or over, healthy or not.

the "free health care" that as some has perceived will not be across the board, it is proposed in hr3200 that health care and the cost of adequate coverage will be determined by demographics... that means that where i live, health care and adequate coverage could be "free and top of the line care", but where you live, health care and adequate coverage could cost more and the care could be less that acceptable. in this case, would you move to a "better demographical area" to ensure the care of you and your family? is that fair? here is reason to ask questions!

also, doctors and nurses as well as all health care workers will be demographically dispersed throughout the country, to where the need is, and be "asked" to accept payment rates, and schedules set by the government.

today in society where the doctors get kick backs from prescribing certain medications to patients, and when a patient comes in with a certain symptom, the treatment is usually for the symptom, not to find the cause of the symptom... because we have so many drugs for all of the symptoms, and prescribing medications is far more profitable than healing. do you think that would change? especially since the pharmaceutical companies are giving large amounts of money "to promote the health care bill hr3200"

i am for health care for everyone, but i do not support the health care bill hr3200! there are some good ideas and proposals made by the bill hr3200, but in all, it will be limiting our freedom! and freedom is what america is all about, and what our fore fathers fought for. are we taking this for granted?

and in case anyone dosen't already know... the health care bill is in 2 parts, the 1st of which was already passed with hr1 the american recovery and reinvestment act of 2009... look it up. did anyone know that was in there? so when i see americans going to these town hall meetings and standing up for themselves, their family and thier neighbors, i am hopefull that our great country will continue to stand for freedom!

i would rather everyone be healthy with less nurses needed, than have a job, even though i love being a nurse, and that is how i make a living.

i propose that everyones goal should be- truth, love and healing!

Specializes in Acute Care, Rehab, Palliative.

I don't know where Americans get the crazy idea that Universal Health Care takes away choices. The previous poster sounds like Chicken Little.The sky is falling!! The sky is falling!!

Specializes in RN, BSN, CHDN.

Why do you think you will have less choice? I dont understand you dont get an awful lot of choice now depending on your insurance and who they say you can go see. They do dictate who is in house and who is not. Then you have large co-pays depending on your choice-last year I had surgery then I got a bill from the anaethesist for $900 as he was not covered by my insurance-I was annoyed that the hospital didnt let me know this, as the bill was a shock.

How many would think to check if the anaethesist was in house just as he was about to put you under??