Socialized Medicine: The Argument to Support Moving Forward

[oramar]

Here is my scenario, Breast Cancer pre menopausal, in the UK a mammogram would not be required until age 52

http://www.cancerhelp.org.uk/help/default_printer_friend.asp?page=3303

Patient would have to prove a need for the mammogram, then would get the treatment recommended by the government.Patient would be offered a lumpectomy and radiation( and maybe standard chemo) through the cancer treatment team. No option to go another center for a second opinion.

UK breast Cancer survival rate lower than the USA. Cost is Zero.....life expectancy is ????

United States, Normal HMO, get mammogram, large invasive tumor found. First opinion suggests a lumpectomy, goes for second opinion a large cancer center. Opportunity to go out of state for third opinion if desired. Mastectomy with immediate reconstruction done ( reconstruction is not done at time of initial surgery) Tumor was too large. Aggressive non fomulary chemotherapy given.

Fast Forward- GYN recommends genetic testing ( not covered in UK) tests positive for BRCA - which is high rate for ovarian cancer. Patient is cancer free.

Cost - $50 for some prescriptions.

For my own selfish reason I prefer when fighting a life threatening disease that I would have options not the state telling my doctor what they can do for me.

That is an excellent outcome but hardly the one that women who delays receiving treatment because they have no insurance or are under insured experience. What about the woman who starts treatment and then loses her job, thus insurance,(I know several people this has happened to) because she is missing so much work. Even if she can scrape together the huge payments to carry COBRA that eventually runs out also. What about the woman who has someone in the family with BRCA and insurance company finds out about it and denies coverage? If you received the finest treatment I am glad but think about you fellow human beings that don't have that opportunity? Insurance companies do horrible things to people everyday that people never even dream of in countries with socialized medicine.

[Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN]

That is an excellent outcome but hardly the one that women who delays receiving treatment because they have no insurance or are under insured experience. What about the woman who starts treatment and then loses her job, thus insurance,(I know several people this has happened to) because she is missing so much work. Even if she can scrape together the huge payments to carry COBRA that eventually runs out also. What about the woman who has someone in the family with BRCA and insurance company finds out about it and denies coverage? If you received the finest treatment I am glad but think about you fellow human beings that don't have that opportunity? Insurance companies do horrible things to people everyday that people never even dream of in countries with socialized medicine.

Great points, in my home state Breast Cancer is covered by the DPH, when I checked my home state I see that other states have similar programs. As far as the BRCA I know for a fact they offer free services.

In my state where 97% are insured why should my benefits suffer because 3 percent choose not to sign up?

[madwife2002, BSN, RN]

[quote=MedSurg32RN;

My last question is if socialized medicine is so wonderful why do nurses from the UK and Australia wish to come to the USA?

Good question but off topic which would take a whole thread to discuss and answer.

Briefly Nursing enables nurses to change countries I dont think it is nursing they come to America for, a lot of UK people want to come to live in America because it is their dream, so if you are a nurse then it is a bonus

[loriangel14, RN]

I am Canadian. I thank god every day for the system we have. My daughter was born weighing 1 1/2 lbs. She was in the hospital for 15 weeks and had two years of follow up care. Cost to me = $0. Treatment and anything they needed to do to save her life was never questioned or dictated by anyone.

The last time I went to the ER I was out of there in 40 minutes.

I asked my doctor for a mammogram at the age of 40 and I got one no questions asked.

I am diabetic and I get free eye care, foot care, free diabetic counselling, I was given a free glucose meter and my drugs are mostly covered by my provincial plan.

I never have to worry about losing my home if i am in a car accident or get sick. No one decides my care except me and my doctor. I needed to see a specialist one time and got an appointment within 3 days. All tests were free as was my treatment and I got to pick which specilalist.

I am amazed that people who live in the USA insist they know more about my system than I do.

[Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN]

Madwife,

I respect you bringing this topic up. Perhaps you can set straight some information which maybe disinformation.

Is this true?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article1050197.ece That NHS is the world's third largest employer ?

Are you suggesting that government run health care is more efficient. If it was so wonderful why did you leave?

I agree 100% that health care needs to be changed. In my state health care is mandatory, there are no people denied if they have a pre existing conditions. It is affordable between $150 to $250 a month. There are rules which the insurance companies follow.

[madwife2002, BSN, RN]

Madwife,

I respect you bringing this topic up. Perhaps you can set straight some information which maybe disinformation.

Is this true?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article1050197.ece That NHS is the world's third largest employer ?

Are you suggesting that government run health care is more efficient. If it was so wonderful why did you leave?

I agree 100% that health care needs to be changed. In my state health care is mandatory, there are no people denied if they have a pre existing conditions. It is affordable between $150 to $250 a month. There are rules which the insurance companies follow.

I dont think my reasons for leaving the UK have anything to do with the thread but for the record I did not come to the US to be a nurse I came to the US because I wanted to live here, Nursing is my job.

I care about the healthcare of this country, this thread is a debate and I am not claiming I know everything about socialised medicine here in the US what I am saying is we need to look after our working class who are the ones who are effected more by medical bills.

I really dont understand what your point is about the NHS can you elaborate your point-the article is 5 yrs old can you find something more current

[Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN]

Good question but off topic which would take a whole thread to discuss and answer.

Briefly Nursing enables nurses to change countries I dont think it is nursing they come to America for, a lot of UK people want to come to live in America because it is their dream, so if you are a nurse then it is a bonus

So as I understand it nursing in America had nothing to do with coming here. The times I have visited the UK I always thought it was a beautiful country and had lots of opportunity. I am glad people are able to follow their dream.

[86toronado, BSN, RN]

"Mr Reid said that the "snapshot" census figures exploded the myth that everyone working in the NHS was a bureaucrat, with 84 per cent of NHS staff directly involved in patient care and managers only making up 3 per cent of the total workforce"

This is from the UK.

I wish it were the case here. If we eliminated all of the customer service representatives, case managers and other pencil pushers needed to simply navigate our healthcare system here, how much would be left for patient care? I'll bet it would beat the system as we have it now!

[LMTtoRN]

So people think that socialized medicine is free? Who do you think pays for it? Where do you think the money comes from? TAXES....and people think that its so economical? What has changed? Surely not just because government runs it....Governments are totally inept when it comes to taking control of things....that's why they are always carrying a deficit....because all they do is spend spend spend.....without regard to costs....now if they decide to control costs and you were a doctor would you want them telling you can't earn more than a certain amount?

The whole idea of capitalism is freedom of choice....does socialized medicine follow that tenet? Not on your life....next time you feel your getting freedom of choice under socialilzed medicine ask yourself one question....."Whose paying for the coverage I'm getting for nothing.....sorry folks there are no free lunches....

[NurseForChange]

ok folks, has anyone read the bill proposed?

let’s remember that if hr3200 is passed the government will be acting as the insurance companies, shifting the power from private companies to the government. limiting and dictating the care we are to get, and not starting out with something that is proven to work for a certain aliment, starting with something that may work (and costs alot less)

and the question here is not "do we want healthcare for everyone?" because yes we all do! the question is do you support the proposed bill hr3200, please look for yourself... www.thomas.gov i know it is alot to read and take in, but make a informed descision for yourself!

what this bill proposes, is that all people must have adequate health coverage, and those who still can not afford it, or those who prefer homeopathic care will be fined with an excise tax- sec207 of the hr3200 (homeopathic care is defined as the care of the whole person, not just the symptoms) also taxing employers for not providing adequate health coverage to employees, and at the same time a few large top companies referred to as being exempt from providing adequate health care to employees. that is reason to ask questions!

hr3200 also proposed that we re-define the term "health care plan" for those 65 years of age and older, to include "end of life care", for anyone 65 or over, healthy or not.

the "free health care" that as some has perceived will not be across the board, it is proposed in hr3200 that health care and the cost of adequate coverage will be determined by demographics... that means that where i live, health care and adequate coverage could be "free and top of the line care", but where you live, health care and adequate coverage could cost more and the care could be less that acceptable. in this case, would you move to a "better demographical area" to ensure the care of you and your family? is that fair? here is reason to ask questions!

also, doctors and nurses as well as all health care workers will be demographically dispersed throughout the country, to where the need is, and be "asked" to accept payment rates, and schedules set by the government.

today in society where the doctors get kick backs from prescribing certain medications to patients, and when a patient comes in with a certain symptom, the treatment is usually for the symptom, not to find the cause of the symptom... because we have so many drugs for all of the symptoms, and prescribing medications is far more profitable than healing. do you think that would change? especially since the pharmaceutical companies are giving large amounts of money "to promote the health care bill hr3200"

i am for health care for everyone, but i do not support the health care bill hr3200! there are some good ideas and proposals made by the bill hr3200, but in all, it will be limiting our freedom! and freedom is what america is all about, and what our fore fathers fought for. are we taking this for granted?

and in case anyone dosen't already know... the health care bill is in 2 parts, the 1st of which was already passed with hr1 the american recovery and reinvestment act of 2009... look it up. did anyone know that was in there? so when i see americans going to these town hall meetings and standing up for themselves, their family and thier neighbors, i am hopefull that our great country will continue to stand for freedom!

i would rather everyone be healthy with less nurses needed, than have a job, even though i love being a nurse, and that is how i make a living.

i propose that everyones goal should be- truth, love and healing!

[loriangel14, RN]

I don't know where Americans get the crazy idea that Universal Health Care takes away choices. The previous poster sounds like Chicken Little.The sky is falling!! The sky is falling!!

[madwife2002, BSN, RN]

Why do you think you will have less choice? I dont understand you dont get an awful lot of choice now depending on your insurance and who they say you can go see. They do dictate who is in house and who is not. Then you have large co-pays depending on your choice-last year I had surgery then I got a bill from the anaethesist for $900 as he was not covered by my insurance-I was annoyed that the hospital didnt let me know this, as the bill was a shock.

How many would think to check if the anaethesist was in house just as he was about to put you under??