I have noticed over the past few years that the CNAs do only care, you are right, why can't they get our VS? In the LTC, the CNAs do empty foleys, but getting the VS would be such a big help.... it is a pain trying to take B/Ps on every other resident because they have parameters for the meds especially when we have never held the meds because of the results....
You are also right that they often do not understand how important they are to the team!
CNAs who do a good job are guarenteed a place in heaven.....
Caring is what this job is all about, from the gal who delivers the meal trays right up to the docs..... we are all a team, and we need to care about those we are responsible for caring for....
I sure hope she got a good long write up. And I hope management backs you up. If she doesn't want to do her job, then she shouldn't be there. And there could be some pt. neglect issues going on that need to be checked into.
Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
Bollwevil, I never took your venting as a generalization that CNAs are not worth their salt. I took it as venting your frustration.
I am not sure if you have ever been a CNA, but, from what I have seen, the schools are somewhat at fault from the CNA education on up because they always paint the idealistic picture. When I went to CNA school, I was told to report EVERYTHING to the nurse, and also, was taught to tell and ask the nurse for assistance if I am having a hard time doing my assignment (almost as if she would place her medication to the side to help me turn a patient-in fact, one of my instructors told me that this should happen, because patient safety is first). Behold, when I started, I saw that I had no time to do the best care for the patients, and when I went to the nurse with some issues, she may have been exasperated (probably out of frustration). I started to learn what was really necessary to involve the nurse in. Most of the nurses really liked me because I was observant, did my assignments and tried to anticipate most needs.
When I became an LPN and learned even more, then, I began to see WHY the nurses would be annoyed when the aides goofed off and purposely didn't do what they were supposed to do. Learned that they really needed accurate vital signs, because patients were being medicated based on what I told them.
Had I not already been an aide, I would have walked out of nursing school naive about what they told me there. Our professors told us that while we were ultimately responsible for patient care, we had other primary functions, and they would speak of delegation to the team...like it was a wonderful thing. The aide would be smiling each time we gave them a task to do. I already knew the deal, and when the students that did not have that experience would tote their horns about what they would get the aides to do, I smiled to myself and sort of waited for them to have a year of experience under their belts to deal with the surly aides that would have no problem saying "screw you" (and it did happen when we got in touch later on). We were also told in nursing school (again), that we go to the head nurse, or manager when we have problems so that they can be addressed. But, in the real world, behold again... there are burned out or grimy managers that clearly do not care or are powerless to intercede. The ball continues to roll again and again. I also learned that the responsibility of patient care as a nurse is further extended...not only am I responsibile for the cleanliness, positioning and comfort of the patient, but I had to learn that medication administration and advocating for the patient is part of safety. Documenting on time is a safety issue, medication reconcilation, proper medication administration, etc... There is no way that the nurse can do it all. And, I am quite sure that there are RNs that will also make complaints about things that LPNs do that compromise their positions and patient safety.
It was really overwhelming to me, and it probably is for every nurse that really cares, because while we wish to be the greatest nurse to work for with the aides, we are also beseiged with an array of other things that don't involve them, but is just as important. I am not judging you at all. I understand. And, I am trying to grow from it, by trying to be the best that I can as an LPN to also alleviate the stress from the already overburdened team.
who "wins"? usually i do, sometimes they win the battle, but the war is mine.
it doesn't seem like anyone would win in this scenario? dave mac were you ever an aide? it is hard work, and extremely un-appreciated work. if i worked with someone who had the attitude of "the war is mine" i dont know how hard i would work to help them either. i would probably want to run and hide too.
please! i was an aide for 6 years and am now an lpn working on my rn. they are not helping you by doing there job, they're doing there job!
i agree aides need to be respected and paid well and appreciated. i never realized the importance of good aides to a nurse until i became one. knowing you have incredible aides working with you helps you to relax, you know things will be reported and recorded and injuries are less likely. bad aides make you nervous- will they let me know if such and such happens? when i ask will they tell the truth or make something up? did they put the residents alarms on? the beds down? it's awful.
some people don't like to work- no matter how much they're paid or how much you respect them it won't make any difference.
aides should not get holidays off, we'd all love it, but it ain't happening! plus, alot of aides prefer to work the holidays because of the holiday pay.
Reading this post has brought out my personal issues on the med tele unit I work on.
1. My 12 hour shift has now turned into a 14 hour day.
2. My new job discription has turned into, RN-aide.
3. Can never find my assistant.
4. Foleys are being missed,blood sugars missed, briefs are sopping wet,red broken down bottoms are being missed, admission vitals and set ups are getting done by the RN-aide.
5. Water pitchers are being filled my the RN-aide.
Whenever i ask for something I get nothing but a explaination of why it cannot be done...
I am exausted 14 hour days are exausting as well as unsafe.
I do not mind helping aides, but just helping myself has become a big issue.
After all is done on the job I am sitting with my charting until 0830, when my shift was to end two hours before!!!
There is a meeting tomorrow morning, issues will be brought up.
Some people don't like to work- no matter how much they're paid or how much you respect them it won't make any difference.
.
Then those people should be let go. I dont think the attitude of "the war is mine" is a good attitude to have. I would want to avoid a person with that attitude. Not help them. We all know Nurses/Aides etc etc can justify and find other work that needs to be done vs doing work that needs to be done now.
Yes the aides should be doing their job they are paid to do. But the expression you get more flies with honey holds very true. If I want someone to work as hard as me and by my side, then I better be nice, kind and respectful.
I still agree if we want to work with good cnas then we better raise the bar. Reward the ones that are exceeding and dismiss the ones that are slacking. As if I was hired in at 9.00 an hour to do ABC work and a peer of mine was only doing A and B work yet getting the same 9.00 how long is it going to take for me to realize I can do 2/3 of my job for the same pay?
I sure hope she got a good long write up. And I hope management backs you up. If she doesn't want to do her job, then she shouldn't be there. And there could be some pt. neglect issues going on that need to be checked into.
I was told the other day that the one who always comes late got suspended for the same issue not too long ago. Wow! Well, I guess it could happen again if she keeps it up.
Neglect, yes! Dressings not changed, TO's not signed by doctors (it's on her to obtain these signatures on her shift, as doctors are only there on her shift), supplies not ordered (again, a Day shift requirement, as Central is closed on 3-11 and midnights), and other stuff. Oh, yes, our floor is a mess. I know this one is depressed but if she can't handle the work, why not get some time off, some counseling, etc.:angryfire:o:yawn:
As a new nurse and former CNA of three years, I can speak from experience. As a CNA your responsibility is patient care. But as a nurse you must also provide patient care. Many of the Nurses I worked with in the hospital would NEVER change a patient, or even help the CNA's turn a patient. An RN BSN was in a room with me when I had to change HER patient. The patient was dead weight, so I asked the RN to help me. She said the she did not know how to change the patient and asked me how to change the diaper. She is a BSN obviously not a moron, so she just did not want to help. I had many nurses call me while at my lunch to ask if I could change THEIR patient. When I told them I was at lunch, they said okay just do it when you come back. Unacceptable to have a patient sitting on a wet diaper or waiting for a bed pan for half and hour. The nurses were not busy at the nurses station. Management sided with the nurses, never with the aides. So we made those specific nurses jobs difficult because they made ours difficult. Remember, treat the aides how you would like to be treated. Just because we have more education does mean that we NURSES are above changing a diaper, turning a patient, or bed pans. Yes, I know how busy our jobs are, but basic patient care is what were taught first and are not above it. CNA's and EMT give respect to the nurses that change a diaper every once in a while and get their hands dirty too. So all of the blame should not be placed soley on the aide. Just speaking the truth to the lazy nurses out there!
Specializes in Telemetry, Oncology, Progressive Care.
Do you ever clash with your aides?
Definitely
What about?
Them doing their job.
Who "wins"?
I'm not really sure. Probably them.
Do you have friendships among your subordinate staff? What about with other coworkers?
I get along with most everyone. There's always a few I don't get along with.
Have you ever had an aide tell you she's refusing your direction to do this or that? Have you ever called your supervisor for back up? What happened?
No, not refused verbally. Refused in the sense that she just doesn't do it. I haven't called my manager for back-up. It's pointless. They continue to let it go on.
How did you cope with it? Were you made to feel at fault somehow?
I just quit. Yesterday was my last day. I was never made to feel at fault.
Are you in a long term setting or acute care with quick patient turnover?
Acute
Is your staff pretty stable or do you have a frequent load of new staff who don't really know the job yet?
Pretty stable. Haven't really had any new staff. Of course that could be because no one is applying for any open positions. The hospital is in the process of being sold. They don't even have very many agency nurses willing to come. Many are refusing to come. I'm very glad to be getting out of there.
It's an ironic thing but our aides complain how we never do anything to help them, blah, blah, blah. Well, when we have aides/secretaries who float to us they are overwhelmed with how much we help them out with answering call lights, helping a pt to the bathroom, changing them, answering phones. They tell us the nurses in their department NEVER do any of that. I guess because we don't do all of our job and all of theirs while they sit on their but and do nothing they perceive nurses as doing nothing to help them out. But, hey if we did their job and our job what's the point in having them?
I love the days when we have good aides but unfortunately it doesn't happen too often. Having good aides just makes the whole shift so much better.
This is my observation of nurses and CNA's as a Nursing home administrator and student nurse:
Do you ever clash with your aides?
Sometimes I see power struggles between licensed nurses and CNA's. When CNA's start talking about the nursing skills of licensed porfessionals we listen but know there is trouble and get mediation involved (team improvement). I also see clashes between CNA's themselves. We implemented a teired CNA program (with pay differential) and some CNA's are held to a higher standard of team support (like cheerleading) other CNA's. There are clashes as to who should hold those spots. The CNA's pick the peer of choice based on criteria ie longevity, experience as CNA, clean employee record. They get 50 cents more an hour. There are 4 slots for days, 3 for evenings and 1 for nights. These are the CNA's who move to medical records and supply when there is an opening if possible.
What about?
It can be about how fast a response is to a residents' needs, about staff members job performance or about how they treat other staff members.
Who "wins"?
The one who is starting the gossip....the one who likes to stir the pot. No one really wins because all the clashes do is cause us to dislike our working enviroment. And most important resident care begins to suffer.
Do you have friendships among your subordinate staff? What about with other coworkers?
I as the administrator do not have friendships even with the DON. I do know there are friendships between some nurses and CNA's, friendships between Department managers and staff members and I do not see any problem with this. I wish I could do this but I find my job easier if I maintain my distance, let people do their jobs. I think it is easier for them to come to me when they know I treat all with the same fair consistancy. I do know their names and if they have family/children small talk so to speak.
Have you ever had an aide tell you she's refusing your direction to do this or that? Have you ever called your supervisor for back up? What happened?
I have had reports and had staff tell me they refuse a direct order from so and so. Some licensed staff have called me at home right away which I prefer some just let the situation go by without even writing the other person up and we hear about it from the "water cooler". In the end I have spoken to both parties involved and both agreed to speak together and it was worked out. The problem was one sold Avon to the other and did not give the correct chage back. The charge nurse knew about this and knew all along about the situation going on. The charge nurse never told the DON before she went on holiday so I as the administrator in a 5 day span had to handle it. In the end the charge nurse never documented anything, was part of the problem (not just this issue but many more). After the DON came back we placed the charge nurse in a team group which she was to faciliate to improve employee morale she just quit instead. The other staff members assisted improving morale and enjoyed many years of employment. Lead by example. And they were a RN and CNA.
How did you cope with it? Were you made to feel at fault somehow?
I thought the employees did not cope well at first. I thought they were acting like children but was so happy and surprised at how they wanted peace on the unit.
Are you in a long term setting or acute care with quick patient turnover?
Long Term Care
Is your staff pretty stable or do you have a frequent load of new staff who don't really know the job yet?
Not a huge turn over. Facility has a good reputation in the community.
Staff is pretty stable. It just goes to show you we all have baggage we carry with us to and from work and it is how we deal with it that matters.
I have worked at a number of facilites (both LTC and acute) in which the aides run the units, mgmt knows and does nothing, and nursing complaints fall on deaf ears. This is pretty common in health care.
This has also been a major factor in why I have quit a number of jobs.
im kinda embarrassed to asked this question but is a LTC the same as a nursing home?
hello everyone, i just finish reading everyone take on aides running the floor, and for the most part yes, very hot subject! i'm an aide now waiting to go to nursing school this fall. i have been a aide off and on since 1987. the floor i work on now, i do mostly everything the rn does expect pass out medicine and write nursing notes, ex: trach, suctioning, vs, baths etc... you name it the aides do it also. now for me, it all okay to do what i was hire to do since this will help me to become a better rn i'm all for the work. but, and this is a very big but.. it's all in how your rn ask you to do something. and over the years, most not all rn's talks to aides like we are their children,( and i'm 20yrs or more older then most of them ) or they talk about us as if though we were not there. you all know there is a shortage of rn's so an aide would get fired way before a nurse. most, not all rn's love the word delegate, i hate to hear the word. most aides that are lazy usually have been working the same unit for years and are friends with the boss or other rn's that been there for years also. my floor is a critical floor, so our nurses were given a raise for critical care, the aides got nothing, and only one nurse spoke up on our behalf. i have seen aides that become nurses change, i have seen young new nurses and nurses that never had to do aide work or did it for a short time as a nurse intern, look down on aides. yes, we would like to make more money we have homes, kids, and bills too. but, no that is still no excuse to mistreat the patients. i don't know what nursing school teaches, but most rn's i have work with recently seem to have this air about them. as, long as the aide do everything they are told to do w/o any disagreements everything is fine. but let that aide have a mind, or a voice, now the aide is label as lazy. now all rn's are not like this i have work with some that i love and would go to the end with them, but the ones who make sure i know my place as a aide is beneath them, i do my work because that's what i was hire to do, nothing more but still nothing less for them. we all deserve respect, no matter what title is behind our names. we all must do what we were hire to do but, also help each other out from time to time. when we walk out the door from our jobs no one cares if you are a aide or a nurse, as long as you are a loving human being.
:angryfire:o:yawn:
wearingmanyhats, RN
140 Posts
I have noticed over the past few years that the CNAs do only care, you are right, why can't they get our VS? In the LTC, the CNAs do empty foleys, but getting the VS would be such a big help.... it is a pain trying to take B/Ps on every other resident because they have parameters for the meds especially when we have never held the meds because of the results....
You are also right that they often do not understand how important they are to the team!
CNAs who do a good job are guarenteed a place in heaven.....
Caring is what this job is all about, from the gal who delivers the meal trays right up to the docs..... we are all a team, and we need to care about those we are responsible for caring for....
Faye