Smokers in Nursing School--How Are You Treated?

[SarahMaria]

I am a smoker (I know, I know), and I am in my third semester of nursing school. Often, especially at clinicals, my fellow smokers and I are looked upon as common criminals. Always, there is some sort of smoking ban on hospital property, therefore, we pariahs must go to a designated location which is usually far away, across the street, in a dangerous neighborhood. Is anyone else feeling like a leper for engaging in a legal activity?

[justashooter]

My junior high government teacher explained civil rights like this: your rights stop where someone else's begin. This isn't that hard a concept to grasp.....people just refuse to see it because they see it as a personal attack.

we get into grey areas so easily, don't we? personally, i don't believe people should have the right to do many things that offend me, but i suffer their civil rights none the less.

as for personal attacks, see the vehement writings throughout this thread on the anti-smoking side. hardly dispassionate argument in a constructive sense. mostly just expression of personal opinion or perceived injury that has not for the sake of the argument been quantified...

[nursel56]

thanks for the compliment. even intelligent people are provoked from time to time. we're not vulcan, you know.

anyway, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it think.

Right! No, wait. How would you know? I would love to go back and forth all day with this, but it's off-topic now and I feel like I'm trespassing in the student area. I think it would be constructive to start a topic about this on Allnurses or Allnurses Central, as your thoughts are not what I would call mainstream and everyone can benefit from a thought-provoking discussion as opposed to an anger-provoking discussion. I'm not pointing fingers - I am prone to it as well. I know I'm not vulcan because I can't get my hand to do that live long and prosper thing. I think it might be genetic like attached earlobes.

edit: I just want to point out that the way you quoted my words was "cut and paste" and is a tool the oligarchy will often use to smear their opponents. Not that it was a big deal the way you did it, but generally it isn't considered "fair play".

[lifelearningrn, BSN, RN]

thanks for the link, tricky. i loved the citations.

we all know the truth, but it doesn't fit some of our schemas very well.

i have lived in cultures in which smoking was considered mandatory for men, and in cultures in which smoking is considered taboo. the violent backlash that smokers have endured in the USA in the last 10 years needs to come to an end. a middle ground must be found. the 30% of American adults that smoke shouldn't be asked to travel a mile from their worksite to somke on lunch break. such policy is vindictive and unfounded.

as i posted earlier in this thread, today it's somkers, tomorrow it's fast food eaters, the next day it's red meat eaters, or people who watch Media, or people who like bad comedy, or people who want to be involved in politics (GASP!). let's all sit around and scream by the fire while each special interest group is roasted. in the beginning it won't seem so bad, but in the end when they are telling you that you can't speak about politics anymore, or teach your children your preferred religion, or take your family outside of a prescribed region without government authorization in quadruplicate, then it'a bad enuf.

when you can't picket for the right to vote, or complain about the government official who paid thugs to chop the hands off of farmers who stood in the way of his industrial develpment plans, or the governemnt official that had a 15 year old girl gang raped and thrown off the roof of a seven story building and declared a suicide, then i'll tell you whose fault it is that things got so bad. it's the fault of every man who stood by and watched the erosion of civil rights.

you think it can't happen? life is that way in certain totalitarian countries i have lived in. let's keep America free.

And the non-smokers are melodramatic? lol

Okay- I agree American's need to be careful to protect our civil rights. Freedom of Speech, Religion, privacy, to vote, etc. are all PROTECTED by our constitution. I'm going to go out on a limb and say the totalitarian societies you've lived in have never had such a document to protect their citizens. Smoking, my friend, is not a constitutional right. The PEOPLE vote these policies into place. We're not sitting back idly allowing the PTB to make these choices for us. (at least those of us who vote aren't) If so, the tobacco companies would have stopped every one of these policies and laws from ever going into effect. The will of the people has prevailed in this case. The people stopped one of the largest lobbies this country has ever seen.

I think you are comparing apples to horses when you try to use this particular topic as a 'oh no, our rights are being eroded by the minute' argument.

[lifelearningrn, BSN, RN]

If you really want some interesting reading.. here is a page full of links of articles and studies that support the fact that second hand smoke is indeed, very dangerous. I don't expect to change the minds of naysayers, since most of the time, even when presented with overwhelming proof, people rarely change their views on a political subject.

[justashooter]

And the non-smokers are melodramatic? lol

Okay- I agree American's need to be careful to protect our civil rights. Freedom of Speech, Religion, privacy, to vote, etc. are all PROTECTED by our constitution. I'm going to go out on a limb and say the totalitarian societies you've lived in have never had such a document to protect their citizens. Smoking, my friend, is not a constitutional right. The PEOPLE vote these policies into place. We're not sitting back idly allowing the PTB to make these choices for us. (at least those of us who vote aren't) If so, the tobacco companies would have stopped every one of these policies and laws from ever going into effect. The will of the people has prevailed in this case. The people stopped one of the largest lobbies this country has ever seen.

whatever happened to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"?

the constitutional protections in place in the BOR are specific limitations on the power of government. in other text of the same document the government is minded to refrain from interference with life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and it is noted that all power not reserved to the national or state government is reserved to the people.

as for the question of how law is formed, and who actually forms it, well, America is not and never has been a democracy. it is a democratic socialist republic, with the right to formulate law being held by electors. electors are rarely seen to speak the voice of the common people.

case in point, the recent attempt to pass the "dream act". in this example we see a piece of legislation that was soundly denounced by 70% of the populace passed by more than simple majority in both houses, in defiance of the expressed will of the American people. only arcane process prevented that travesty from occuring. even worse so, "obamacare" was passed, despite the opbjection of the clear majority of the American electorate. note the reversal of seats in the HOR this month for evidence of the will of the American people in that respect.

if you think laws are created by the will of the people, you are quite naive. law is created for the benefit of lobbying special interest groups that stand to profit by it.

and let's not get into a discussion of the basis of most recent federal statute, the "commerce clause". this principle has been over-reached since slaughterhouse (1873), and is a bane to states rights, and the rights of the people in general.

[justashooter]

Right! No, wait. your thoughts are not what I would call mainstream and everyone can benefit from a thought-provoking discussion as opposed to an anger-provoking discussion.quote]

you are a 54 year old woman who has spent her entire life in health care. i am a 46 year old man who has lived and "worked" for many years in hostile environments with objectives i am not permitted to discuss, worked in industrial and manufacturing management, as well as working in health care. your "mainstream" is different from mine, but i'd buy you a cup of coffee on a saturday afternoon if you lived in south central pennsylvania. hell, i'd buy you dinner if you wore lipstick.

[lifelearningrn, BSN, RN]

even worse so, "obamacare" was passed, despite the opbjection of the clear majority of the American electorate. note the reversal of seats in the HOR this month for evidence of the will of the American people in that respect.

if you think laws are created by the will of the people, you are quite naive. law is created for the benefit of lobbying special interest groups that stand to profit by it.

Health care reform, was one of the major reasons the MAJORITY of the voters in this country voted Obama into office. Just because the GOP didn't want it, doesn't mean that the majority doesn't want it. The reversal of seats, imo, is more attributed to the "OMG THE SKY IS FALLING" tactics Fox News has been spewing and the republican bobble heads have been eating up. The people elected Obama for change and that is what he is trying to do. Want to talk about travesty? How about republicans filibustering a bill that was designed to take care of the 911 first responders? It took a comedian to light the fire that got that bill passed. Where was Fox News and all their outcries while that was happening? The dream act a travesty? Well, I think the fact the the GOP filibustered the first responders bill in the beginning is just disgusting... but I digress...

I totally agree that huge lobbies and special interest groups practically control our government. But come on, who was one of the biggest special interest lobbies out there for decades? BIG TOBACCO. Aside from maybe big oil, they were probably the most powerful in this country. Guess what? They lost. Why? That, my friend, was the will of the people prevailing. There was nobody who stood to profit more in this case than big tobacco.

Unfortunately, until we 'gasp' reform campaign financing so that big business and special interest groups can no longer bribe our elected officials, well, unfortunately things aren't going to change all that much.

[lifelearningrn, BSN, RN]

Oh- I'd like to say that I really think smokers should be allowed to smoke in their cars if they so wish to.. I think it's ridiculous to tell someone they can't smoke inside their own property, even if it's parked in a parking lot.

[2ndyearstudent, CNA]

Oh- I'd like to say that I really think smokers should be allowed to smoke in their cars if they so wish to.. I think it's ridiculous to tell someone they can't smoke inside their own property, even if it's parked in a parking lot.

As far as not being able to smoke in parking lots go, you smokers have only yourselves to blame for that.

I'm sure that none of the smokers in this thread is one of the disgusting people that thinks that a parking space is an ideal location to dump your butt-filled ashtray on the ground next to your car before you drive away, but enough of your cohort thinks so that banning smoking in parking lots is a pretty good idea.

Not to mention the smokers who think nothing of tossing lit cigarettes right out the window on the highway without regard to how many fires this causes. Not all smokers are disgusting (some are downright gorgeous!) but enough of you are that rules had to be put in place.

Your habit impinges on others in many ways - a lot of which many of you could try to avoid and do not.

You have only yourselves to blame.

[lifelearningrn, BSN, RN]

For the record, I haven't smoked in almost a decade. I am NOT a smoker. I never dumped my ashtray on the ground, anywhere. I'd be lying if I said in my younger days as a smoker I didn't flick one out of the window but I quit that after the police started cracking down and writing up huge tickets. I can honestly say that was WRONG and I'm embarrassed for myself and the person doing it when I see people doing to this day. It was wrong, I'll admit that for the rest of my life.

[nursel56]

quote justashooter you are a 54 year old woman who has spent her entire life in health care. i am a 46 year old man who has lived and "worked" for many years in hostile environments with objectives i am not permitted to discuss, worked in industrial and manufacturing management, as well as working in health care. your "mainstream" is different from mine, but i'd buy you a cup of coffee on a saturday afternoon if you lived in south central pennsylvania. hell, i'd buy you dinner if you wore lipstick.

I have not been in health care my whole life. I got my license when I was 19. I took an extended hiatus and pursued various interests far and wide. My idea of a good time is to spend the day in a college library basement or "stacks" looking up obscure documents. Seriously. I actually forgot to pick up my son from kindergarten one afternoon because I was digging through volumes of minutes related to the United Nations Ministers Plenipotentiary Permanent of 1967-8 looking for items related to the "two Chinas" policy of the Nixon Administration. Gotta watch those assumptions about people.

I've been through PA once to visit relatives in Monaca, and all of them have since passed on, so not likely I'll be in your area, drat.

[caroladybelle, BSN, RN]

Not to mention the smokers who think nothing of tossing lit cigarettes right out the window on the highway without regard to how many fires this causes.

I have burn scar from someone's flicked cigarette, hitting me and then falling in the back seat of my car.