Sincerity amongst collegeaues

Jules A, MSN · Feb 13, 2017

Often times, I feel that there is a lack of sincerity and togetherness with my fellow NPs. It's such a dog eat dog world out there. For example, I was talking to my former classmates from my NP school and while catching up over the phone, they asked if I switched jobs and I said yes I have a new job now and the first thing they asked was how much money do I make? That always baffles me because quite frankly, it's no one's business.

We have a very different take on this particular topic. I am more than happy to tell any of my peers how much I make because if we don't discuss wages that is one way employers keep us in the dark about how much money there is to be made. Its in their best interest to pay us the least amount they can get away with, and unfortunately NPs probably because mostly women tend to be very poor or non-existent negotiators.

It is of no benefit to me to have someone come in and undercut the going rate. If we all make excellent wages it doesn't take one penny out of my pocket. I'm in no way trying to one up anyone, I want us all to make the most we can. There are NPs in my specialty with equal or more experience who are making thousands of dollars a year less than I make and I find that disturbing. Without discussing the going rate how is anyone, especially our new grads, going to know how much to expect or ask for?

Trauma Columnist · Feb 13, 2017

Hmmm....I work in a large neph practice - we have 8 advanced providers: 7 APRNs and 1 PA. As the supervisor I KNOW how much everyone makes and its very in keeping with the current local market. Our benefits are what put us over the top though.

I'm sorry that you are not in a good practice - am unsure why this other NP has reasons to not be collegial - why is this to his advantage.

However, I would suggest now that you are aware of his attitude that you (and you might already be doing these things too):

1. Schedule your own time for CME - no reason to inform him whatsoever.

2. Talk with your docs on your own - don't brag but provide them with stats - I'm responsible for stats each month.

3. Engage the office staff if you are in an office - no reason to brown-nose but just be friendly and appreciative.

4. Be respectful to other nurses - they will have your back.

Are there other NPs in the practice?

orangepink, NP · Feb 13, 2017

@trauma: there's a third one coming in a couple of months. Yes, I finally wised up about being too friendly. So far, the supervising MDs have given good feedback. And any constructive criticism, I take it graciously.

As for the nurses, I'm always there for them. I give them the work phone number so they have a direct line but he keeps deleting them! I confronted him about it but he denies it! There's only two of us using that phone for now! He deleted the pharmacist number too and she's a really good resource!

Anyway, I appreciate the advice. I just need to watch my back a little bit more.

JellyDonut · Feb 13, 2017

I read the post and all I could think was that a guy would not complain about such stuff. Man up, take care of your own CME. Do you job and try not to get your feelings hurt so easily. If a friend is acting to one up you and you don't like it - either tell her or ditch her. If you complain like this in your office cannot see how anyone can take you seriously. I do not mean to be harsh, but you are a professional now and you may need to step up your game. Learn from your interactions and make better choices.

The dude who thinks a BMW makes a statement is right, but it may not be making the statement he is looking for......

Riburn3, BSN, MSN, APRN, NP · Feb 13, 2017

We have a very different take on this particular topic. I am more than happy to tell any of my peers how much I make because if we don't discuss wages that is one way employers keep us in the dark about how much money there is to be made.

DING DING DING!

People being shy about their wages likely are just embarrassed because they didn't negotiate very well. This whole taboo about keeping wages private is ingrained into corporate American culture to keep employees from knowing what their peers make, and in turn getting upset when they realize they didn't negotiate as well as they should have. I think it's why half the threads you see on this site are people asking "what's your specialty and how much do you make", because they're too afraid to inquire with people they actually know. All my close NP friends and I know exactly what we all make, and what others in the market are making. It's much easier to negotiate when you know your market and can see the cards your employer is holding.

This is how I negotiated my current job:

I have two friends working for the same hospital system in town, seeing a similar case load (both inpatient and out) that I would be expected to see for the job I was interviewing for, and same amount of experience. I also knew exactly what they made. The interview went well, and when the time came for the offer, the hospital tried to offer me $85k. I immediately laughed, especially since I had worked for the hospital before as an RN, and was earning more than their offer to me as an APRN. I made sure they knew that, and also made sure they knew that I am aware of reimbursement rates, and what they were offering me is an absolute joke. They came back and said they could go as high as $93K and not any higher, so I said thanks but no thanks, and that was the end of it. Within an hour they called me back and gave me what I wanted including a sign on and annual bonus, which was exactly on par with what my friends were making. Had I not been savvy or known what I should expect in their negotiation process, I would have been in the dark.

As far as your work environment, that just sounds like a bad situation with your coworker. A little competition is always healthy and is motivating, but what you're talking about with your coworker is a little ridiculous. I think following traumaRU's advice will go a long way no matter where you work.

guest769224 · Feb 14, 2017

Within an hour they called me back and gave me what I wanted including a sign on and annual bonus, which was exactly on par with what my friends were making.

Makes me wonder what was happening behind the scenes to make the tables turn in your favor, even after they initially said no. Your leverage used was that you knew your friends made more than that and that you should too?

Jules A, MSN · Feb 14, 2017

Makes me wonder what was happening behind the scenes to make the tables turn in your favor, even after they initially said no. Your leverage used was that you knew your friends made more than that and that you should too?

My guess is they saw they didn't have a push over on their hands and realized if they didn't make a respectable offer a decent clinician was going to go bye-bye. I've had a couple of places actually laugh when I told them my rate, I chuckled right back and said "yeah thats the rate and even if you feel you are over paying me as a NP I'm a bargain compared to a psychiatrist" and more often than not I have gotten the call back when they came to their senses. It took one several months but I got the call and still work there. :)

You'd be amazed at the people who cave when they get any push back and employers are skilled at trying to make you feel as if your request is out of the question. I recently had a friend tell me they didn't want so seem "money grubbing" when asking their employer to match an offer they had in writing from elsewhere.

Trauma Columnist · Feb 14, 2017

Our career is just that: a way to pay the bills!

We, as nurses must push for better wages - we are a commodity - they bill off of our work, so we should be compensated fairly.

Riburn3, BSN, MSN, APRN, NP · Feb 14, 2017

Makes me wonder what was happening behind the scenes to make the tables turn in your favor, even after they initially said no. Your leverage used was that you knew your friends made more than that and that you should too?

I think they are just used to people hearing "this is as high as we can go" and jumping at it if they really want the job. Although I made clear my interest, I also had a great job at the time and was perfectly happy continuing on, so I wasn't under a lot of pressure to accept. The position at the time had also been vacant for 9 months and I had been sought for the position due to my previous employment at the hospital, I didn't go looking for another job.

Overall though, I think that's just their standard move to say "we can't go any higher on the offer" because a huge percentage of folks will then accept it.

Jules A, MSN · Feb 14, 2017

Although I made clear my interest, I also had a great job at the time and was perfectly happy continuing on, so I wasn't under a lot of pressure to accept. .

This is such an important component to be in a position where we don't allow ourselves to get in a jam and therefore have to jump at whatever scrap someone is willing to toss in our general direction. We are professionals and need to run our financial lives accordingly which basically means not living pay check to pay check.

Riburn3, BSN, MSN, APRN, NP · Feb 14, 2017

This is such an important component to be in a position where we don't allow ourselves to get in a jam and therefore have to jump at whatever scrap someone is willing to toss in our general direction. We are professionals and need to run our financial lives accordingly which basically means not living pay check to pay check.

Yup, I had friends quit their jobs working in the hospital before they had anything firm locked up, or even before they took their boards. I would rather have continued working as a floor nurse making decent money, than be unemployed for a few months and be desperate for the first offer that comes my way.

It's much easier to negotiate from a position where you have nothing to lose than one of desperation. I almost treat job negotiations like car purchases. Don't get attached and don't hesitate to walk away. In both cases it makes the negotiation much easier and the end result is usually in your favor.