Should all nursing students be required to be a CNA for one year?

allnurses Guide · Feb 12, 2005

Only now we also pass meds and do assessments. It's not until the 4th semester that we actually move into more of an RN role where we don't do baths and linen changes and fall into more of a leadership role QUOTE]
Are you talking about a leadership rotation? Because I assure you, as an RN/BSN I have done baths and linen changes for a great many years, (its a great time to do those assessments).

bluesky, BSN, RN · Feb 12, 2005

Nope.

rach_nc_03 · Feb 13, 2005

I'm a nursing student right now and I started out as a CNA. Of course I feel like it gave me an advantage and it's really helped me a lot, but I don't think a law should be made requiring student to be CNAs. It would definitely be in a nursing student's best interest to get some good experience like this, and there is always the option of sitting for the CNA test to get license so that one could pick up some extra hours and expereince while in school. Everyone's paths are different. Some people get their first medical experience through working as EMTs also. If someone was interested in working in trauma, having CNA experience might not necessarily help as much as having experience as an EMT. I would highly recommend it to people thinking about nursing school if it's feasible for them, but you'll learn what you have to learn at some point anyways. Being a CNA gives you a leg up in terms of confidence and understanding things in the beginning of nursing school which can be a big, big help.

good point. my school required CNA-I listing with the state for entrance into the program. Since I felt I'd lean toward trauma or intensive care, I did an EMT course first (8 hours per week for a semester), then took a 1-day seminar to be listed as a CNA-I. After my first year of school, I needed to work as a CNA for financial reasons, and my EMT certification plus a year of my ADN program gave me the opportunity to work as a CNA-II in an ICU. I work 30 hours a week while I attend classes full-time (that part sucks), but I get great health insurance (something I personally need), plus pretty decent pay, and good experience in the specialty area I'll be working in after I graduate.

That being said, I think if all I did was the bedbath-vitals kind of work, I wouldn't find it nearly as helpful- but we're in our advanced med-surg semester, and 99% of the time, when we talk about a procedure or piece of equipment in class, I've seen it in action. Plus, in clinicals, the CNA-type tasks we have to perform on total care patients are things I can get through really quickly, allowing me to spend more time on assessments, researching meds, etc.....some of my classmates are still struggling with these time-management issues 2 months before we graduate.

I think the ultimate question is whether or not it's right for your situation. Don't take anyone else's recommendation without thinking about *your* goals and objectives. and good luck!

eudemonist_too · Feb 13, 2005

I agree with Jim Huffman. It's not the role of law to aid one in their journey through life. That is, it does not exist in order to help one realize their likes and dislikes.

Another thing, just because someone works as a CNA prior to nursing school, doesn't mean that he or she will like the job five or ten years from now. Likes and dislikes wax and wane like the moon.

Perhaps these people who dislike their current position aren't looking hard enough for a place that they may enjoy working at. Nursing has many boulevards for one to travel down. I would suggest to such a person that he or she try looking in different departments or specialties before giving up.

And in the end, it's never too late to do something else. It may take some thought and planning, but nothing is impossible to accomplish (barring extreme cases). As Yogi Berra said, "It ain't over, til it's over."

All the best to all of you!

obeyacts2 · Feb 13, 2005

I think CNA training should be a program pre req. Our local ADN program requires NO pateint care experience, just a high GPA. I just finished my last pre req, physiology, and i actually heard other students say " all RNs have to do is pass meds, do tx, and tell the CNAs what to do." Some of my classmates were grossed out by a lab dealing with SALIVA!!!!!! :rolleyes: Can you imagine how they will manage in clinicals? Our ADN program teaches CNA type skills and grants a CNA license after the first semester. I think that making CNA type experience a requirement would weed out people, plus free up class hours in the ADN program for more RN level material.

Laura

nursemike, ASN, RN · Feb 13, 2005

My school grants admission based on a point scale. To be assured of admission, you need to accumulate at least 35 out of a possible 38 points. LPN's get 5 bonus points, which is pretty substantial. By that logic, I could see giving a couple of points for CNA experience, because it is certainly valuable, but I wouldn't agree with making it mandatory. Generally, I think it's desireable to keep entry into nursing as flexible as possible.

I'm working my way through school as an unlicensed assistive worker, but not an aide. I get some of the benefits of patient contact, but not as many as an aide. I was eligible to sit for the CNA exam after my first year of nursing school, but by then it made more sense to continue in my present job. Like others, I had a good deal of CNA training as part of my Fundamentals course and feel that was generally adequate preparation for that part of the job.

Nursing as a formal discipline began as a way for educated young women to support themselves, in addition to serving the needs of patients. I believe it continues to serve an expanded version of that function. For those of us who come to nursing as a second, or third, career, it's a good way to earn a decent living doing work that matters. That may or may not fit the standards of a profession, but it is about as honorable as it gets. If it were up to me, I would keep the avenues to enter nursing as flexible as the opportunities to practice nursing after graduation. There's no simple formula to describe what makes a good nurse.

KrisRNwannabe · Feb 13, 2005

I am going to have to vote no on this one. Here are my reasons: First off, I like many I have noticed on this board are career changers. Sometimes we have jobs that pay very well. There is no way I could have afforded to live on 8 bucks an hour for that year. I am in a LPN program now. I took lots of private loans to supplement me quitting my 18/hr job. that way while i am finishing the last 2 semesters of the RN program I can work. Second, we learned the CNA role the 1st semester. the first semester we did all the CNA work, passed meds, dressing changes, watched many procedures, and did many procedures on the patients that didn't have students. Now, in the 2nd semester we contimue to do all that but now for 4 patients. I am well veresed in the role of a CNA. I have never wanted to be a CNA so why should I have to work as on before? I didn't have any previous skills as a hydrogeologist before for my last career, but I did the job wonderfully. Besides, at my school the CNA class was during the day when I was working. I would have had to take it privately and spent 700 dollars. No thanks, I think I will let the nursing scholarship I get to teach me that skill. We have to remember there is a nursing shortage. Also, in my state at least, you can work as a CNA in hospital after the first semester and you don't have to be certified. If people want the work, let them do it then. I don't want anywhere near a nursing home so i would never get certified. in our state you have to be certified to work in a nursing home but not in a hospital.

ICUsleep · Feb 13, 2005

There's a few i can think of now that working their way up would have done them well. Might actually make them appreciate those other who help in pt. care.
And i also saw quite a few nurses who, even after 4-5 years of school, couldn't give a bed bath or feed a pt., because their program focused on meds and paperwork. Which is why i don't see the harm in taking the class, but never said it should be a law.

Marie_LPN:

I never said YOU said it should be a law.:) Was wondering why the poster and those who stated they think it should be a law felt that way. I understand the point of view from those who think it is a good IDEA; it is the "required by law" part I disagree with. Again, I'm not saying YOU said that.

Also, like I said in my post, I think it would actually make MORE sense to have physicians starting out thay way..so we are in agreement there...but, let's just dream a little dream there because we know that won't be happening!:chuckle

Cameelrn · Feb 13, 2005

Okay, please dont take my head off......but I hear/see so many students/new nurses regret the career path for whatever the reason maybe. My question is......Should all future nurses be required by law to have at least one year as a CNA before being accepted into nursing school? I ask this b/c new nurses are taught, it seems, so little about that level of nursing. A CNA being the most basic of the nursing staff, just does not seem correct if those who will rule over them does not have it.
As well as, the career path can be examined more closely by rolling up the sleeves and jumping in with body, mind and soul. Finding out if this is the place for you before you spend $$$$, time and even taking the seat in nursing school from someone who really knows this is for them.
Thank you for reading this and for your gentle response's. :)

I'm pretty much in agreement with you. Actually, I think we would benefit from having RNs work as LPNs first, too. And let's not leave the doctors out. The best doctors I know were nurses first. Instead of saying for a year, though, I think we could come up with a minimum number of hours. That way they could get those hours in while going to school for the next level. Just a personal note, though, nurses do not rule over CNAs and those I work with would bite your head off for that! We work together as a team. Where I work, the boss has stated that he will fire a nurse if she walks out of the room to get a CNA to put a patient on a bedpan. We depend on our CNAs to do the baths and answer the call lights (if they are available), but if we're there and the patient needs to go to the bathroom, has a urinal to empty, wants a bedpan, more water, kleenex, whatever...we do it. If I am running like crazy, I will ask a CNA to take care of it, adding "While I go do...." to let them know that I really am not shirking the work but have other things to do.

Uh, but back to your question, yes I think we should all have a minimum number of hours working as a CNA first.

BETSRN · Feb 13, 2005

My school grants admission based on a point scale. To be assured of admission, you need to accumulate at least 35 out of a possible 38 points. LPN's get 5 bonus points, which is pretty substantial. By that logic, I could see giving a couple of points for CNA experience, because it is certainly valuable, but I wouldn't agree with making it mandatory. Generally, I think it's desireable to keep entry into nursing as flexible as possible.
I'm working my way through school as an unlicensed assistive worker, but not an aide. I get some of the benefits of patient contact, but not as many as an aide. I was eligible to sit for the CNA exam after my first year of nursing school, but by then it made more sense to continue in my present job. Like others, I had a good deal of CNA training as part of my Fundamentals course and feel that was generally adequate preparation for that part of the job.
Nursing as a formal discipline began as a way for educated young women to support themselves, in addition to serving the needs of patients. I believe it continues to serve an expanded version of that function. For those of us who come to nursing as a second, or third, career, it's a good way to earn a decent living doing work that matters. That may or may not fit the standards of a profession, but it is about as honorable as it gets. If it were up to me, I would keep the avenues to enter nursing as flexible as the opportunities to practice nursing after graduation. There's no simple formula to describe what makes a good nurse.

I agree with keeping the avenues into nursing flexible but I do NOT agree with allowing nursing programs to be "watered down" by making programs shorter in length (don't like the idea of the "accelerated" BSN). Many new grads have minimal clinical experience at best and I still feel that it is this unrealistic experience/expectations that make for such a high rate of nurse burnout.

Gennaver, MSN · Feb 13, 2005

Okay, please dont take my head off......but I hear/see so many students/new nurses regret the career path for whatever the reason maybe. My question is......Should all future nurses be required by law to have at least one year as a CNA before being accepted into nursing school? I ask this b/c new nurses are taught, it seems, so little about that level of nursing. A CNA being the most basic of the nursing staff, just does not seem correct if those who will rule over them does not have it.
As well as, the career path can be examined more closely by rolling up the sleeves and jumping in with body, mind and soul. Finding out if this is the place for you before you spend $$$$, time and even taking the seat in nursing school from someone who really knows this is for them.
Thank you for reading this and for your gentle response's. :)

Hi,

This is one of those "it depends" kinds of questions. On one hand it seems like it would be a good idea and at several of the local community colleges near me they require it before acceptance into the ADN program.

I am not a nurse, (yet) and several that I have worked with have told me that they got into the nurse profession because they wanted to work with patients, not with the charting and endless paperwok. This means that they do not get to enjoy the amount of patient care and contact that the CNAs do.

Hopefully in a good system they will work as a team.

I do however believe that the odds of someone getting into this profession on a whim and not liking it is pretty strange. Could it be that they do not like the area they are working in or the company or their coworkers? Could it also be that they have underlying issues within themselves that are made worse by working in a health care giver role?

Gennaver

p.s. cna for 17 years and finally getting to the RN program. :) yes, I am super certain now.

BeenThereDoneThat74, MSN, RN · Feb 13, 2005

...we all know at least one RN, most likely in our work place and no doubt on our shift that either wont or does not know the first thing about this basic nursing.

It depends on how you define 'basic nursing'. Is bathing a patient (and other CNA duties) basic nursing?. I'm not saying that is not important to learn/know, but I would say we get enough of that in nursing school. I know I spent all 4 semesters doing more CNA duties than actual RN duties. And let's face it, these things are easier to learn as you go than all the nursing things they don't have time to teach you in nursing school.

And what pre-requisites do doctors take before med school? Last I looked pre-med did not consist of doing a Medical Assistant's duties (imagine that!!! :chuckle )

So my answer is no. If you feel so inclined, to make sure you can handle working with sick people, vomit, stool and blood, then yes, do it. I don't think it waill; make you a better nurse. The roles (and the responsibilities) are very different. I did not take this route, so I cannot speak from experience, but I don't think most CNAs can truly appreciate what nurses do. Of course, if you become a CNA with the intention of becoming a nurse, you will probably be more aware of what the nurse does, and be interested in what they are doing. But I don't think it should be a requirement.