Should Male Nurse Work In L&D?

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toomuchbaloney

toomuchbaloney

Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice. Has 43 years experience. 8,973 Posts

1 hour ago, DavidFR said:

Exactly and in Europe we have male midwives.

Do you then start saying no lesbians in obs & gynae? Do we bow to the homophobes who don't want gay nurses, or the racists who don't want nurses of other races?

No females on urology? No males on breast surgery? 

Where do the non-binary and intersex fit into all this?

I've had females look after me during urology and proctology procedures. They were good professional nurses. I didn't care about their gender.

A professional is a professional. Our work is NOT sexual if we're doing it properly.

Sure. As male nurses we can absolutely demand that our work be disconnected from the wishes, beliefs, feelings, history or interests of the patient. Do we still get to call that patient centered care?

DavidFR, BSN, MSN, RN

Specializes in Oncology, ID, Hepatology, Occy Health. Has 36 years experience. 515 Posts

2 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Sure. As male nurses we can absolutely demand that our work be disconnected from the wishes, beliefs, feelings, history or interests of the patient. Do we still get to call that patient centered care?

Patient centred care has its limits. Last week I had a very difficult patient who basically wanted my presence the whole night long, however I had my other  patients to see to aswell, so she couldn't have her wish. We try to satisfy our patients' every wish but sometimes it's just not possible practically. 

This Sunday I was on night duty with another male nurse and a male care assitant. No female patient objected. As male patients we often face an all female nursing workforce and we just have to deal with that.

The rare nurses who would abuse their position of power for sexual gratification need to be reported and dealt with by the law, but they are a tiny minority and that applies equally to doctors, police, lawyers etc. etc. etc. As a gay man I might feel more comfortable with gay nurses, doctors, police, lawyers, taxi drivers, whatever, but I'm not going to refuse straight professionals who do their job well. I'm not going to choose their race and I'm not going to choose their gender. I think that's just being reasonable.

I once looked after a male Congolese refugee who had been gang raped by other men. He was fine with a male nurse.

I have had elderly women, nuns and veiled muslims expose their bits for me because it's OK if it's medical. As somebody pointed out, male obstetricians and gynaecologists don't seem to be going out of business.

kdkout

kdkout, BSN, RN

Has 27 years experience. 155 Posts

Oncology nursing is not the same as labor and delivery, though. You don’t do recurrent vag exams and stare at a patients vagina, potentially for hours, while you wait for the baby to come out.  
 

When I was an oncology patient, it was embarrassing when they changed my Hickman dressing and temporarily bared my breast. This does not even slightly compare to what you go through when having a baby, though. 
 

Much of the time the labor patient will not get a choice about who they’ll get as a nurse, so why make it harder? The patient will be meeting that nurse for the first time, and will have no idea if that male nurse is Mr Professional, and when you arrive at the hospital scared and in pain, that’s not going to help

 

There’s a million things to do in nursing. It doesn’t have to be this. 

Hoosier_RN, MSN

Specializes in dialysis. Has 29 years experience. 3,559 Posts

34 minutes ago, kdkout said:

Oncology nursing is not the same as labor and delivery, though. You don’t do recurrent vag exams and stare at a patients vagina, potentially for hours, while you wait for the baby to come out.  
 

When I was an oncology patient, it was embarrassing when they changed my Hickman dressing and temporarily bared my breast. This does not even slightly compare to what you go through when having a baby, though. 
 

Much of the time the labor patient will not get a choice about who they’ll get as a nurse, so why make it harder? The patient will be meeting that nurse for the first time, and will have no idea if that male nurse is Mr Professional, and when you arrive at the hospital scared and in pain, that’s not going to help

 

There’s a million things to do in nursing. It doesn’t have to be this. 

So what about about a male gynecologist? What if you have a female GYN, she's on leave and you go into labor. All there are is male GYNs or staff to deliver the baby. Do you refuse? Sorry, baby is still coming. I had all male staff in the military except the CNM who delivered my children. I was never uncomfortable, as my mind was preoccupied. None of the staff were ever inappropriate. Would I have preferred females? I don't know, the staff were professional as is, so I never gave it much thought

His mention of oncology wasn't a comparison to L&D. Someone else mentioned that a man couldn't know about delivering a baby. He agreed but also stated that he'd never had cancer but was good at oncology, to note you don't have to experience what the patient is experiencing as a nurse to be good. Some female mom &  baby nurses have 0 personal birthing experience, so should they be excluded as well?

You also stated that a male nurse could be abusive or sexually motivated. A female can as well. It boils down to professionalism and motivation

toomuchbaloney

toomuchbaloney

Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice. Has 43 years experience. 8,973 Posts

1 hour ago, DavidFR said:

Patient centred care has its limits. Last week I had a very difficult patient who basically wanted my presence the whole night long, however I had my other  patients to see to aswell, so she couldn't have her wish. We try to satisfy our patients' every wish but sometimes it's just not possible practically. 

This Sunday I was on night duty with another male nurse and a male care assitant. No female patient objected. As male patients we often face an all female nursing workforce and we just have to deal with that.

The rare nurses who would abuse their position of power for sexual gratification need to be reported and dealt with by the law, but they are a tiny minority and that applies equally to doctors, police, lawyers etc. etc. etc. As a gay man I might feel more comfortable with gay nurses, doctors, police, lawyers, taxi drivers, whatever, but I'm not going to refuse straight professionals who do their job well. I'm not going to choose their race and I'm not going to choose their gender. I think that's just being reasonable.

I once looked after a male Congolese refugee who had been gang raped by other men. He was fine with a male nurse.

I have had elderly women, nuns and veiled muslims expose their bits for me because it's OK if it's medical. As somebody pointed out, male obstetricians and gynaecologists don't seem to be going out of business.

So all or some of that would justify requiring an ob/gyn patient to accept a male nurse regardless of their preference because the nurse really wants to provide the care? 

Male OB/GYNS may not be going out of business but now they have some diverse peers to meet the needs of the community.  

kdkout

kdkout, BSN, RN

Has 27 years experience. 155 Posts

“So what about about a male gynecologist? “

Feel free to read my earlier comments on this issue. 
 

 

DavidFR, BSN, MSN, RN

Specializes in Oncology, ID, Hepatology, Occy Health. Has 36 years experience. 515 Posts

1 hour ago, toomuchbaloney said:

So all or some of that would justify requiring an ob/gyn patient to accept a male nurse regardless of their preference because the nurse really wants to provide the care? 

Male OB/GYNS may not be going out of business but now they have some diverse peers to meet the needs of the community.  

If a woman objected to me giving her intimate care of course I would go out of my way to find a female colleague, but in a 36 year long career in two different countries that's happened twice. On one occasion it was the woman's husband, not her, who actually objected.

My point is that this should NOT deter the OP from taking a post in L&D, just as male doctors are not deterred from becoming obstetricians or gynaecologists, and midwifery programs in Europe accept male applicants who go on to practise their profession. While a minority of women will object, and yes, I'd respect their wishes, empirical evidence shows us the majority don't, so I would say to the OP, pursue your chosen field and I'm sure that with respect and sensitivity, you'll be fine.

DavidFR, BSN, MSN, RN

Specializes in Oncology, ID, Hepatology, Occy Health. Has 36 years experience. 515 Posts

2 hours ago, kdkout said:

Oncology nursing is not the same as labor and delivery, though. You don’t do recurrent vag exams and stare at a patients vagina, potentially for hours, while you wait for the baby to come out.  
 

I've posed urinary catheters in countless numbers of women and never had a problem. I've posed pessaries and deep vaginal ovules - no problem. I do ECGs on young women and access their port-a-caths where they'll usually have to bear their breasts. I've worked in units with breast surgery and gynaecology beds and NEVER had an issue in those areas. If you'll accept a male doctor examining you vaginally and staring "down there" for hours, I don't see the difference in a nurse or a midwife.

If you came under my care and you were uncomfortable because I'm a man, of course I wouldn't force care on you. However I find that with the tact, sensitivity and professionalism I try to to give ALL of my patients, this just doesn't arise.

toomuchbaloney

toomuchbaloney

Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice. Has 43 years experience. 8,973 Posts

1 hour ago, DavidFR said:

If a woman objected to me giving her intimate care of course I would go out of my way to find a female colleague, but in a 36 year long career in two different countries that's happened twice. On one occasion it was the woman's husband, not her, who actually objected.

My point is that this should NOT deter the OP from taking a post in L&D, just as male doctors are not deterred from becoming obstetricians or gynaecologists, and midwifery programs in Europe accept male applicants who go on to practise their profession. While a minority of women will object, and yes, I'd respect their wishes, empirical evidence shows us the majority don't, so I would say to the OP, pursue your chosen field and I'm sure that with respect and sensitivity, you'll be fine.

The fact that he wrote the post makes me question his suitability for the work. That's assuming that the post is honest and not simply provocative. 

TAKOO01

TAKOO01, BSN

Has 6 years experience. 1 Article; 257 Posts

So many interesting answers here. I see a little bit of a parallel between this discussion and the current issues going on with women's rights today. No woman should have to explain why she wants a nurse or doctor of a certain gender. It doesn't matter if she has a male OB but wants a female nurse.  She does not have to explain her preferences. It doesn't matter if the nurse feels there is no difference  between a male nurse and a male doctor. That choice belongs to a patient.

I personally have given birth a couple of times with female teams (I made that choice, as I prefer female providers). I actually asked for the random male doctor who showed up (to watch?, I dunno) to get out. I don't have to explain  why. It made me comfortable. If I was bleeding to death and only a male nurse or doctor had the expertise needed to save me, of course I would say yes. But when I can choose, I do.

I am always amazed (stupid of me, I know) at how people are so perturbed by women making choices about their own care and their own bodies. 

The OP should go ahead and pursue his goals. I am sure there are some women who have no problem with male L&D nurses. 

DavidFR, BSN, MSN, RN

Specializes in Oncology, ID, Hepatology, Occy Health. Has 36 years experience. 515 Posts

54 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

The fact that he wrote the post makes me question his suitability for the work. That's assuming that the post is honest and not simply provocative. 

Would be interesting if he came back and gave us his thoughts now.