Should BSNs be paid more?

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I know ADNs and BSNs both sit for the same NCLEX exam, both have approximately four years of education, and at best have negligible differences (over time) in their nursing skills. BSNs take courses than broaden their overall knowledge; however, ADNs have more clinical experience prior to entering the workforce. Should there be a differential for BSNs, or should the reward for obtaining a BSN lie in the ability to advance one's career?

I'm not trying to start an ADN vs BSN bashing, I'm just curious to see what you all think.

Specializes in Med-Surg.
At the hospital I worked out nurses that were BSN prepared were the only ones allowed to be promoted to higher positions. ADN nurses could be charge nurses, but that was it. One of the charge nurses I worked under had to go back to school to move up in her position. So BSN prepared nurses are the ones who will eventually end up with more responsibility.

But the question is....before they get said promotions should they be paid the same as an ADN doing the same thing? It's understood BSN have more options to obtain higher paid positions.

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Specializes in RN, BSN, CHDN.

In the Uk the only reason I can see for anybody to undertake their Degree is for promotional reasons, because you get bugger all else for all the studying you do. I have upteen qualifications and nobody has ever asked to see the proof apart from my PIN number-which proves I am a RN.

Oh yeah I can write professionally and do research now.

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I think financial recognition should be awarded to those who continue to seek educational opportunities. Most certifications require CEUs for renewal. Those who seek certification and maintain it should be financially compensated.

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Specializes in Obstetrics, M/S, Psych.
At the hospital I worked out nurses that were BSN prepared were the only ones allowed to be promoted to higher positions. ADN nurses could be charge nurses, but that was it. One of the charge nurses I worked under had to go back to school to move up in her position. So BSN prepared nurses are the ones who will eventually end up with more responsibility.

That's right. And when they get it they can get paid considerably more for it, not until, though.

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Specializes in Obstetrics, M/S, Psych.

We agree. Mind you I didn't read word for word everyone's response but I don't see much advocacy for "considerably more" pay for the BSN.

A diff. of .50 to 1.00 (which is what most hospitals pay for BSNs) is absolutely appropriate. My hosiptal offers 4% when you get a BSN, which for me would be about a dollar. Which for a new grad would be about 88 cents.

By no means should BSNs make significantly more than ADN. A token differential would be nice though and I'm all for that.

OK, I am with you on the recognition for the BSN, so long as it is kept to a reasonable amount.

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Yes, .50 more an hour is reasonable.... for a McDonald's employee - Diane

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Specializes in Onc, M/S, Hospice.
Yes, .50 more an hour is reasonable.... for a McDonald's employee - Diane

.50 cents!!! COM'ON!

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that's the way you make more money with an advanced degree. and i have no problem that a manager makes more than a worker, or that your hospital requires a bsn for that position. good for you.

but if both of you were bedside nurses doing the same job, then i don't see why you should earn more.

That's a good question. I have heard that question before, I have also heard the question, "why should the Dr. make so much money when I'm the one here by the bedside doing all the work?" My point was I make more money because my degree allowed me to advance, if you want to weigh the benefits of a BSN verses a ADN to me that is the reason to go for it. I got my BSN and worked my butt off in the treaches for pennies more, I expected no better, but now that I'm getting older I like my desk job, I'm an administrator. I encourage all nurses to further their degrees.

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Specializes in ICU.
I am very humbly asking these questions. They are not meant to be offensive just thoughts of a student.

Let's say that you earn your ADN and continue on at your current workplace (hypothetically of course) in the same position..

How would you feel about assuming a greater liability responsibility... while recieving the same pay as you had before you became a registered nurse? You are in fact "doing the same job," are you not? Do you consider the fact that with your advanced "formal" education you your knowledge base has been expanded? and refined your critical thinking skills?

Do you allow for the possibility that your high quality clinical skills and success as an LPN (increased pay and respect of your employers) has been enhanced by and is therefore the result of furthering your formal education and certifications?

Do you feel you would have been just as knowledgeable and capable a clinician if you had just accepted your LPN certification as the final step in your formal education?

Do you feel that an LPN whose practiced for say 5 years without your drive, someone who did only the barest of minimums to keep her certification educationally, should make the same or more than and ADN nurse because she has had more "clinical" experience?

Do you consider the possibility that increased experience at the bedside of an unmotivated nurse at any degree level can cause a stagnation and inferior performance? Would you still reward that clinician on the basis of experience rather than formal education?

jen

You are comparing apples and oranges when you compare an RN to LVN. LVNs DO NOT do the same things that RNs do and they do not have the same

responsibilities. A large majority of places do not even hire LVNs anymore. We are comparing RN-BSN to RN-ADN, not RN to LVN. I am not bashing LVNs here either, I was one for several years.

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Not all places require a BSN for management- some prefer Masters! The DON at the last hospital I worked for had an RN,BSN,MEd,MBA!! (the one before her had all that plus a Doctorate in Education!) I have 2 good friends who are both nurse managers at large hospitals, they are ADN, and both make close to 6 figures! One of them started as a staff nurse at the same hospital 29 yrs ago, and is now nurse manager on the same unit. (and has been for 10 yrs). She doesn't spend all her time in her office either, she pitches in and helps, even works wkends when needed, or to fill in for vacations; she has both BSN & ADN RN's under her supervison. Administration has never even suggested she get her BSN. I think it's important to have the clinical EXPERIENCE to be an effective manager. In one ER I worked in, they hired a new manager. She was an RN,MSN. She had NO clinical experience other than RN school, and we had to teach her drips, how to operate the pumps, etc. She was NOT respected, and left after less than 2 yrs b/c we DIDN'T respect her. She was totally useless for anything other than paperwork. There was also alot of resentment b/c she couldn't possibly be a resource to us w/no knowledge of the ER! IMHO, it takes practical experience to function effectively in the real world- paperwork can be learned anytime!!

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but here are my 2 cents: where i work my nurse manager has an adn & has been working or for over 15 yrs, she is also a cfa,cnor, and has taken many many management classes. i do not even think about her degree, but i value her experience and have learned so much from her- she has vast experience in the or & icu, and offers us a wealth of knowledge. she is in this position b/c she is good at what she does. if she had the bsn w/out her practical experience & knowledge, she would not be as effective in managing our team here. we love her. the manager before her had the degrees,bsn,msn-- but she did not have the management skills-- she was more into micro-management-- & created a poor work environment as well as contributed to poor morale under her reign-- we were not sorry when she left to pursue further education!! it takes a special person to be good at managing staff-- and in my experience a degree has very little to do w/that!!

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alrighty...lets first say this...an lpn does not do the same job as a rn, the roles and functions and responsibilities are different and require a more indepth knowledge bases, hence the higher level of courses when going to school. absolutely not should an employeer who uses lpn's and rn's in the same functional capacity should they pay the same to both. i say this because there is a broad difference between the two, remember everyone i am an lpn and currently in school for my rn. it is not a matter of the ability of a lpn to function at a level but rather the difference in education and roles. when an lpn works at a level of an rn, they dont put rn behind there name, however an adn and bsn rn all sign there name with rn...

spic, lpn's do assess...did you know we are taught head to toe assessments, system assessments...etc. our scope of practice is very broad...also an lpn in particular situations does not have an rn to supervisor him or her. i am sorry spic, but i was very offended by you stating an lpn does not assess...we do in many areas...yes when speaking of floor nursing we are under direct supervision of an rn, yes under your license as you under a provider...however we assess and we are taught how to!!!

hey jen, not offended at all...in fact i like your questions and will do my best to answer them.

"let's say that you earn your adn and continue on at your current workplace (hypothetically of course) in the same position..

how would you feel about assuming a greater liability responsibility... while recieving the same pay as you had before you became a registered nurse? you are in fact "doing the same job," are you not? "

no i would not being doing the same job, i say that for these reason's, my knowledge base is test with nclex-rn...i am no longer working under the qualifications of an lpn. i have proven to the fullest extent of my capabilities to function higher...in addition to that...i would not have my same job because i went to school not to stay at my level but to advance. again bsn and adn take the same qualification test...now if an adn, took the effort and went back to school and got her bsn then yes he/she should be paid more...a couple of dollars to be exact. both adn and bsn at entry levels should start at the same pay as long as it is the same responisibility and job. lpn when graduating from adn schooling or bsn...has a different role a different job.

do you consider the fact that with your advanced "formal" education you your knowledge base has been expanded? and refined your critical thinking skills?

oh most definately...hence the difference in some aspects to lpn to rn, however most of my ability to do this has been based on the fact that i apply my "formal education" to my job, i take those things into my patient care. but honestly i would say it is about a 60% experience to 40% knowledge gain which has improved my nursing skills.

do you allow for the possibility that your high quality clinical skills and success as an lpn (increased pay and respect of your employers) has been enhanced by and is therefore the result of furthering your formal education and certifications?

yes, however i don't think that would be such importance if i was not able to or didn't care to apply it to my current clinical skills. again i think i have the same answer for this one as previous stated. let me say this...i am by no means placing my clinical skills at the level of an rn, i am not there yet, i have not taken the nclex-rn to prove that...there is a difference between the two...lpn's who want to disagree go ahead but tell me that when you start rn education.

do you feel you would have been just as knowledgeable and capable a clinician if you had just accepted your lpn certification as the final step in your formal education?

i think i would have been close, cause see i am a question asker...if i don't understand a process or why a particular disease process is presenting with particular symptoms/signs...i ask or research till i find out why, my wide range of experience has def. played a key in being very open or capably of recognizing things. then again, i wouldn't know for absolutely positively sure, unless i went back and did it over again...please remember that i am still working on pre-reqs for my degree.

do you feel that an lpn whose practiced for say 5 years without your drive, someone who did only the barest of minimums to keep her certification educationally, should make the same or more than and adn nurse because she has had more "clinical" experience?

this is a difficult question to answer, i make the money i do because i was recruited for my position...that is what they offered. without my drive i don't think someone would have been seen how functional a person is...if that makes sense or not. i do not make more than most rn's with experience, however new grad rn's, in most positions i do...i don't see a problem with that, a person should be rewarded for experience...just like do you think a new grad should make as much as you, someone with experience???

do you consider the possibility that increased experience at the bedside of an unmotivated nurse at any degree level can cause a stagnation and inferior performance? would you still reward that clinician on the basis of experience rather than formal education?

i believe beside capabilities must be shown, i have seen lpn's with 20yrs of experience and their knowledge was lower than alot of new grads because they just didn't care to learn, or advance themselves, even with clinical knowledge. i have seen it with rn's too, it is sad...i want them to be happy and find the joy and excitement as a nurse and the many benefits other than just pay that the position offers. that is why i will probally never go back to ltc, no offense intended to anyone, just my personal feelings.

part of the reason i make as much as i do is because as soon as i conquered my learning capabilities in a particular area of nursing i moved on, often every 6 months, the longest place i stayed was a hospital for 1 1/2 years...there is the trick with nursing...you will most likely always be offered more on a new hire basis than recieving pay raises...every new job i took, i jumped up at least a dollar in pay if not more...this one i was recruited too, when the topic of pay came up, i requested my current pay, i was happier there and life was good there...i was offered $3.00 more an hour. it is sad but in nursing you are more valueable to an employer as a new hire with experience than you are as a retained employee...lol hence high turn over in nursing.

nursing is a career all in it's self that is why it can't be compared to other careers, we are unique in our training, our education, our experience, and our duties performed.

if you believe you are worth more, than you fight for it and don't stop till you are happy...plain and simple!!!

hope that answers the questions...

annette

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