Should BSNs be paid more?

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I know ADNs and BSNs both sit for the same NCLEX exam, both have approximately four years of education, and at best have negligible differences (over time) in their nursing skills. BSNs take courses than broaden their overall knowledge; however, ADNs have more clinical experience prior to entering the workforce. Should there be a differential for BSNs, or should the reward for obtaining a BSN lie in the ability to advance one's career?

I'm not trying to start an ADN vs BSN bashing, I'm just curious to see what you all think.

In KY to get your ADN takes 2 years not 4 and you have one extra semester of clinical experience in the 4 year program than you do the 2 before you hit the work force and your final clinical is a semester where you don't go as a group you go alone and carry a RN's work load. My sister in law and I started at the same time she got her ADN and I got the BSN, she finsihed 2 years earlier than I did, I was 20,000 more in debt than she was when it was all over with student loans, it cost as both 10,000 a year. So to answer your question should I make more money? YES, and I do. Nurses that seek the BSN need to learn how to make the most of their furthered education, I'm in administration now and at our hospital it requires a BSN to have a nurse managers position. Now 10 years later I have moved on and she is gripping that she is stuck where she is.
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In KY to get your ADN takes 2 years not 4 and you have one extra semester of clinical experience in the 4 year program than you do the 2 before you hit the work force and your final clinical is a semester where you don't go as a group you go alone and carry a RN's work load. My sister in law and I started at the same time she got her ADN and I got the BSN, she finsihed 2 years earlier than I did, I was 20,000 more in debt than she was when it was all over with student loans, it cost as both 10,000 a year. So to answer your question should I make more money? YES, and I do. Nurses that seek the BSN need to learn how to make the most of their furthered education, I'm in administration now and at our hospital it requires a BSN to have a nurse managers position. Now 10 years later I have moved on and she is gripping that she is stuck where she is.

that's the way you make more money with an advanced degree. and i have no problem that a manager makes more than a worker, or that your hospital requires a bsn for that position. good for you.

but if both of you were bedside nurses doing the same job, then i don't see why you should earn more.

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Specializes in Medsurg, Rehab, LTC, Instructor, Hospice.
I'm not trying to nitpick, but not all ADN graduates have more clinical experience than BSN graduates. My BSN program includes three years of clinicals at about 12-16 hours per week. The first two years of clinicals are in the hospital, and the final year is spent studying community health and doing clinicals in a variety of different settings.

The whole "BSN programs are all theory with less clinical time" idea is a myth.

And...the BSN program at my school takes closer to 5 years to finish.

Okay, here is the deal. I have a BSN. I recieved it 10 years after completing my ADN.

My ADN had two clinical days per week.

My BSN had one Clinical day per week. The most hands on experience I had was the community health nursing which I chose school nurse and passed out ritalin and searched for lice.

Now that I teach nursing clinicals, (in a different state)the ADN students have one clinical day per week. My second semester students were starting IVs (sucessfully) assisting physicians with bedside procedures and writing very practical careplans, in addition to performing outstanding assessments.It was my expectation.

You HAVE to have a nursing program that balances Quality experiences with Quantity of experiences. x amount of clinical hours have no meaning if they are not getting experiences that will enhance their knowledge of nursing. It really is crucial that the school/university has clinical sites where the co operation of the hospital staff and the volume and diversity of the cases meet.

Whoops! Was I on that soap box AGAIN??? :smackingf

The moral of the story is.... there is room for EVERY nursing degree, from aids to masters. Long Term Care can not afford to hire all BSNs.

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Specializes in Obstetrics, M/S, Psych.
In KY to get your ADN takes 2 years not 4 and you have one extra semester of clinical experience in the 4 year program than you do the 2 before you hit the work force and your final clinical is a semester where you don't go as a group you go alone and carry a RN's work load. My sister in law and I started at the same time she got her ADN and I got the BSN, she finsihed 2 years earlier than I did, I was 20,000 more in debt than she was when it was all over with student loans, it cost as both 10,000 a year. So to answer your question should I make more money? YES, and I do. Nurses that seek the BSN need to learn how to make the most of their furthered education, I'm in administration now and at our hospital it requires a BSN to have a nurse managers position. Now 10 years later I have moved on and she is gripping that she is stuck where she is.

You are a perfect example of the BSN who should make more than an ADN. You should make more in management. That's the way to use your BSN, if you want to make more money. But, you also have the extra added responsibility that goes with being part of administrative staff. You are earning and deserving of that extra money.

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In reply to most of the responses I am seeing here...I feel that all education should be paid for. In every other profession the more education you get the more you get paid and the more respict you are given. If we want to be compensated as all other professions are we need to make sure we show prooper reqpect for those that made the sacrifice and paid the money to get more education...BSN or MSN.

It may or may not happen. But it would take some serious doing. In some places in the USA, up to 70% of RN's are prepared at the AD level for professional nursing........

in some cases, a bit of "tweaking" is all that it would take to make an ADN a BSN program, really. But that would also take money, manpower and some time.

So yes, it may well happen. But it's a long time coming. And I don't think it would necessarily be a bad thing.

Still standing by my belief that BSN's should receive an education differential until that happens. There needs to be an incentive/reward for additional education in nursing, just as in any field. And I don't believe BSN is "all fluff" either. Personally, I would like to see additional education rewarded-----I would like to see RN's hold baccalaureate degrees in varying related disciplines, actually. Coupled with an ADN, many bachelor degrees would be rather useful. Additional education to me, is never, ever a waste of time.

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We must continue to compete with the mentality in this world. That mentality is that you are paid more and given more respect dependent on your level of education. I feel that in 20 years there will be no choice but to demand all nurses have Bachelors degrees to be perceived by the community as knowledgeable. The world itself is demanding everyone to have more and more education to compete. Why should nursing be any different?

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Keep in mind that many BSNs are ADNs with additional education and consequently additional clinical time.I agree that the BSN doesn't necessarily better prepare you clinically, but it does provide a better foundation for management, leadership, nursing theory, research, political involvement, and non-traditional nursing roles. For years our nursing organizations have tried to raise the professional standards for nursing. It isn't just the nursing shortage that serves as a roadblock, but our overall attitudes. Meanwhile other healthcare professions continue to raise their standards (social workers, pharmacists, physical therapists, etc.). As a result, the professional role of the RN is minimized by other disciplines (semi-professionals, if you will).

Another problem: I'm not familiar with every states Nurse Practice Act, but it seems that here in NC that anyone can practice nursing without a license (outside of a hospital setting) except a graduate nurse! The Board of Nursing regulates nurses and doesn't prevent others from practicing our profession as does the Board of Medicine or the Board of Pharmacy. We are not protecting our own profession.

Sorry, I'll get off my soap box. Any comments?

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In every other profession it seems people make more money when they have had more education. So I think that BSN prepared nurses should make more than ADN prepared nurses because they have put in more time. Physician assitants and nurse practitioners have similar roles to doctors, but because doctors have been educated longer they make more money. It should be the same for nursing.

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Wow, great posting...I am really impressed. Ok first off Roland...outstanding point with your intitial point. And Critterlove, I agree with you on many levels.

Ok now lets begin with the debate of more education more money because more experience means more money. Well when comming to nursing which is a unique career in it's self you cannot compare education to experience (IMO), it is like apples and oranges...Why you ask...well remember when you were a new grad??? How much did you know compared to a year from that time or now in your career??? I would bet that you would say your education gave you a foundation to grow on and learn more...or at least truelly learn it. So therefore, experience (for the most part) can make a more competant nurse, better educated one, or shall we say experienced educated, so yes they deserve more than someone with higher education. At least in this field because we learn in the field, meaning our working experience. So a nurse with 20yrs experience with a ADN degree should DEF. make more money than a new grad BSN or ADN. Because experience and clinical knowledge is what matters in our careers. I will tell you this, I am an LPN, almost done with my ADN, then I will go for PA and probally get my BSN degree somewhere in the mix of that. You know I make more money with only 5 yrs experience as an LPN than a new RN, it isn't travel and it isn't per diem or agency...straight forward job 40 hours a week. Now you ask how is that fair, well I will tell you, I strived in my career to better myself in every way possible, with clinical experience, various certificates for special training...but most importantly I proved my professionalism and my knowledge and my skills to my previous and current employeers...I do this all with in the scope of my practice...which I know inside and out. So that doesn't sound fair does it??? Well I think it is because I sought out and found that clinical knowledge which makes nurses so valueable and great clinicians. Now please note, by now means am I putting myself at the level of an ADN or BSN...I am just stating the facts. I am not at that level, will be soon...my career choices is based on one fact...I want to work in a Trauma center, hopefully as a PA, I would choose NP but PA's tend to be utilized more in ER/Trauma settings. It is not for pay, because I already make that....

I think careers should pay more only if they require that higher level, meaning a BSN...if it can be done with an ADN, then I say no...that is the encouragement for further education. Honestly, I don't think one degree or the other makes you a better or worse nurse. Being a good nurse and a good clinician comes from the inside and development of skills, hence education. There are good and bad at all levels of nursing from LPN's to MSN's. Education does not dictate that. Again stating my original statement pay should not be based on Education but rather experience.

Now regarding additional cert's or qualifications. If at entry level you are required to have a particular degree...such as BLS or ACLS or PALs for that current position...no I don't think you deserve more, you are just doing what you need to have your job...you are not going above and beyond to better your clinical skills and your knowledge. Now if you choose to become an expert in a particular field(in relationship to position) then yes you deserve an incentive for that...for instance I am not required to have anything but BLS, Well I am an ACLS and PALS instructor...again above the call of duty and that is considered when I am offered my pay.

Now in regards to being credentialed...the only nursing level that should be is MSN or NP, I say that because they practice at a level near PA's and MD's. I say this in regards to MD's because MSN/NP's require what about 8 years of education? I could be wrong on that, not sure...not something I am personally interested in. But still we are nurses not doctors with 16+years of education...don't standardize it, isn't it nice to be a class of our own?? We won't gain more respect with credentionaling, we gain respect by proving and showing the public our value in their healthcare...that is respect...no piece of paper can show respect or earn respect.

In Conclusion, if we standardize pay, we will never push ourselves to better our clinical knowledge base...if we offer things for experience...for going the extra mile...for going above the call of duty then we deserve to be recognized and acknowledged for that best way to do that is to reward with higher pay.

Hope I don't offend anyone...just my opinion and experience.

Annette

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Specializes in Obstetrics, M/S, Psych.
In every other profession it seems people make more money when they have had more education. So I think that BSN prepared nurses should make more than ADN prepared nurses because they have put in more time. Physician assitants and nurse practitioners have similar roles to doctors, but because doctors have been educated longer they make more money. It should be the same for nursing.

I have no problem with the BSN who has more responsibility than I making more than I do. In other professions, those with an associates or bachelors hold positions of increased responsibility, accordingly to their degrees, same should hold true for us. Doctor's don't only get paid more than NP's and PA's because they go to school longer, it is also and mostly because they are much more liable and apt to be held ultimately respnsible for something gone wrong than the NP or PA is. (They need to make more to pay for that ! :eek: )

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A BSN takes 4 years of undergraduate course work. Typically, an ADN takes 2 years of pre-requisites and 2 years of nursing course work. That is where I came up with the same amount of time.

I think that it takes 2 yrs to complete pre-reqs in the AD program because the students are not going full time, and have to divide the classes up so to speak, and that maybe it takes them 2 yrs before they are able to apply for clinicals. However, the curriculum is not designed to be completed that way. It is also the same in the BSN program. There are semesters that total 19 credit hrs.! I am a wife, and mom of 2 so of course there was no way I could complete one semester with that many hrs. So if people are considering how long it takes them to complete all of their pre-reqs before starting clinical, then the BSN can take approx. 6 yrs!!

On the subject of who should get paid more: I do believe that both degrees yield RN nurses. There are probably LPN's out there that feel that they do basically everything that RN's do, and that it is "only about a year difference between their LPN schooling and the AD schooling", and that they should be getting paid the same or near the same, for the same work. However, I am sure that the AD nurses beg to differ, because in that "year" they learned so much, and spent money on top of it all to obtain that ADN! I feel the same way about the BSN. We perform (at the bedside) the same duties, but the 2 extra yrs spent in school, was actually spent learning something. And, the money and time taken to obtain that BSN degree should mean something. So I do think that there should be some type of pay differential. In my area (TX and LA) a lot of the hospitals have started giving .50 cents to a $1 extra to BSN's per hr.

BSN GRADUATE DECEMBER '05 !!!!!!!!!!

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"many people think non-nursing courses, non-hands on courses are "fluff". Such as the liberal arts courses, etc. Also, as was mentioned by another person in this thread , "the classes a bsn takes don't have a bearing on the reality of bedside nursing. what does a class on community nursing have to do with being a bedside nurse? or nursing for the family? and these classes are filled with much inane fluff".

In my experience, these additional "fluff" classes are very important to bedside nursing, but if you didn't take these classes, you may not know the benefit. Community Health Nursing, for instance--when we admit people to our unit, we ask them questions like "do you have running water?" "do you have electricity?" "is there anything we can do for you while you are in the hospital to make your transition back home any easier?" ....etc. Had I NOT done community nursing, I wouldn't know that not too far outside the city limits, there are people that don't have running water--instead, they have a pump outside their door that gives them access to well water--to them, that is "running water"--many have electricity--an extension cord from the main house to their shack in the backyard (I saw this A LOT in a rural TX community). Now, because of my community health experience, I know the correct way to ask these questions, and I am able to get these people the proper help (or education regarding safety measures) before they leave the hospital with their newborn baby.

So, if you see no benefit to community nursing or other "fluff" classes, it isn't because there is "no benefit", its because you do not have the experience to recognize the benefit. And, don't get me wrong, I don't think that not having this education makes you a bad nurse, I just think that there is a benefit to having them, and for me personally, it has made me a better nurse.

Back to the original question about more money for BSN vs ADN, I agree with many that there should be a differential pay for a BSN. I really don't know why people are arguing "same job, same pay". Education should be rewarded when it is in your primary career field. I also believe that nurses in general should make more money, but when we are divided amongst ourselves as a profession, we will probably never win when it comes to things like better pay.

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