I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced sexism in the workplace as an NP, especially compared to working as an RN?
Perhaps it's because my field (NICU, peds) was so heavily female-dominated, but I only recall extremely rare instances of sexism from colleagues in the many years I worked as a nurse.
Now in my specialty as an NP, there is a larger proportion of men in my workforce compared to nursing, and more than half of the attendings in my specialty are men. Even living in a very progressive area, I have noticed so many more examples of both subversive and overt sexism than I did as a nurse. I want to preface it by saying that the majority of the male APPs I work with are amazing. However, the vast majority of the thankless, back-end 'secretarial' style work that makes a lot of the clinics run tends to fall on the women APPs, especially in a shared workforce where a set of patients is jointly managed by several (male and female) APPs. In addition, the small handful of terrible male APPs I work with seem to be given a pass by the male attendings because they've got a chummy, 'boy's club' kind of vibe. I also see so many more examples of attendings making overtly sexist remarks to APPs than I did in nursing under the guise that it's a 'safe space just between us' where we're just 'joking around.'
I understand that gender dynamics in nursing are extremely complicated, and that men face a lot of discrimination in nursing. I also think that the nursing and APP workforce benefits from having more equal gender distribution.
Even so, I've been so taken aback by this gender dynamic because I've never experienced it until now. It is a new and frustrating part of the job that I never expected.
Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
heron said:
And, to return to the subject of the thread, I don't believe for a minute that APRNs experience less sexism than us plebes, just different presentations.
I am sorry that you feel RNs are "just plebes."
I do not understand how you are able to know and comment on the lived experience of other people, including NPs.
Patronizing doesn't work on me. I've been literate longer than you've been alive, probably, so I understood the question just fine.
I'm well aware that the thread has been temporarily de-railed by your uncalled-for dismissal of a nurse as (just) an RN who's been licensed also likely longer than you've been alive.
Not only did you dismiss her input, but she was actually answering the part of the question that everybody else - including you - ignored. Yet you want to scold me for "belittling" you and not understanding the question. That's rich!
As for the lived experience of others, you're the one who dismissed Ruby's lived experience as irrelevant. To rephrase my comment, I do not believe for a minute that those workplaces are free of sexism. Sexist behavior manifests in many ways, both between coworkers and with patients/families. Perceptions of workplace culture are also highly variable due to either self-interest or self-defense. Psych 101.
If you can't tolerate us outsiders reading your special threads, check to see if the site will support a private group with screened credentials and a secret password. Or start your own site. For now, I'll read what I want and respond when I think I have something to say.
Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
heron said:
I'm well aware that the thread has been temporarily de-railed by your uncalled-for dismissal of a nurse as (just) an RN who's been licensed also likely longer than you've been alive.
You continue to put words in my mouth that I never said. From your defensiveness, it appears that you are insecure about being an RN, and I am very sorry for that. Best wishes to you.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
FullGlass said:
Did I say that? No, I did not. I correctly pointed out that the question was for Advanced Practice Nurses, not for RNs. I would not answer a questions directed at RNs, as I am not an RN. I think that RNs are more likely than APRNs to experience sexism at work.
heron said:
"Be quiet, you're just a nurse …”
Did I say that? No, I did not. I correctly pointed out that the question was for Advanced Practice Nurses, not for RNs. I would not answer a question directed at RNs, as I am not an RN. I think that RNs are more likely than APRNs to experience sexism at work.
I think we understood exactly what you meant. "Be quiet; you're just a nurse. And an old one at that."
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
heron said:
I remember when advanced practice nursing was in its infancy. The idea was to prepare highly experienced, expert nurses to use their skills to the fullest - not to take novices and turn them into MD-lite.
And, to return to the subject of the thread, I don't believe for a minute that APRNs experience less sexism than us plebes, just different presentations.
And I would think they'd be less sensitized to it than us crusty old bats who fought for the ERA . . . remember that? Newer nurses today will often preface a statement by saying, "I'm not a feminist." If you're not a feminist, maybe you just aren't seeing all those bright red patriarchal flags.
And now this thread will be about Full Glass and her disrespect rather than about sexism in health care. That's too bad, because it might have been an interesting discussion.
I am a feminist and so is my former colleague, Mathew who is an NP (one of those worthier souls who was an excellent nurse before he went on to his NP Program). It was Mathew who pointed out to my NP colleagues that when the attending came around to round on our patients with him, they sat down with him and chatted for a moment or a few and THEN got up and walked around the unit. They *listened* to him, and to the bedside nurse because Mathew made a point of introducing the bedside nurse by name and asking a question about the patient's status. When the attending came to round with the female NPs, they were expected to stand up the moment they noticed his presence, and if they didn't immediately do so, he'd say something like, "Come walk with me." Bedside nurses weren't supposed to speak unless spoken to.
You continue to put words in my mouth that I never said. From your defensiveness, it appears that you are insecure about being an RN, and I am very sorry for that. Best wishes to you.
From your offensiveness toward old RNs, it appears that you are overly invested in your pickme need to become one of the elite.
And I would think they'd be less sensitized to it than us crusty old bats who fought for the ERA . . . remember that? Newer nurses today will often preface a statement by saying, "I'm not a feminist." If you're not a feminist, maybe you just aren't seeing all those bright red patriarchal flags.
And now this thread will be about Full Glass and her disrespect rather than about sexism in health care. That's too bad, because it might have been an interesting discussion.
I am a feminist and so is my former colleague, Mathew who is an NP (one of those worthier souls who was an excellent nurse before he went on to his NP Program). It was Mathew who pointed out to my NP colleagues that when the attending came around to round on our patients with him, they sat down with him and chatted for a moment or a few and THEN got up and walked around the unit. They *listened* to him, and to the bedside nurse because Mathew made a point of introducing the bedside nurse by name and asking a question about the patient's status. When the attending came to round with the female NPs, they were expected to stand up the moment they noticed his presence, and if they didn't immediately do so, he'd say something like, "Come walk with me." Bedside nurses weren't supposed to speak unless spoken to.
I agree that it would be an interesting discussion, but I don't think it's gonna happen on AN anytime soon. Such a discussion challenges the status quo, a dangerous choice given the current chaos among APRNs over pay, access and scope of practice. Is the workplace truly as free of sexism as previous posters seem to think? Or are they unconsciously editing their perceptions to protect themselves from ridicule, invalidation or outright job loss? Would such a discussion trigger questions about sexism in actual patient care?
OP, for one, has seen a red flag or two ... and see how her colleagues reacted.
FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP
2 Articles; 1,939 Posts
I am sorry that you feel RNs are "just plebes."
I do not understand how you are able to know and comment on the lived experience of other people, including NPs.