screaming doctors....how can we handle them?

Nurses Relations

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I work on a fast paced med/surg unit in a large hospital. For the most part our surgeons are great caring doctors who are easy to get along with. But we have one especially, who is a peripheral vascular surgeon, that is the most rude, degrading, loud, and angry doctor you could imagine. I mean you should hear the stuff that comes out of his mouth.

We have many good nurses on our floor, we are by no means incompetent. We even have one surgeon that insists his patients come to our floor and our floor only. But this "jerk" doctor will sit in the nurse's station and demand to speak to so and so's nurse and then as soon as they approach him he will lay into them in front of everyone; fellow coworkers, patients, visitors. He usually screams and says what horrible nurses we are and that he should never bring his patients here, and hes just very very degrading and nasty.

For instance tonight one of our nurses had a post-op angioplasty/stent placement patient who was complaining of numbness that just started in his foot and was progressing up to his shin and calf. This was the foot he had just been operated on and he said it had never been numb before and the numbness was spreading. So of course that nurse called the doctor who happened to be the "jerk" doctor. He ended up coming in, assessed the patient, and decided there was no need for concern. Well he came into the nurse's station, plopped down with his feet up, and demanded our unit assistant to get the patient's nurse.

When she didn't appear before him within 30 seconds he demanded to have the nursing supervisor called. In the meantime he is looking around for the patient's chart and sees that the patient's medical doctor is there looking through it. So he leans over, grabs the chart from the other doctor without saying anything, is tearing through it getting what he wants, and then gives it back to the doctor without saying a word.

By this time the nurse had made it to the nurse's station and the first thing he says to her is "have you EVER taken care of a vascular patient before?!" she says yes of course. He then proceeds to rip into her about why would she ever call him when there's nothing even wrong with the patient and that he wants to know how he can have all his patients transferred to another hospital, and so on and so on. I mean he literally yells so you can clearly hear him all the way down the hallway.

Then when he was done with her he demands again where the nursing supervisor is and our unit assistant tells him that she is on the phone but he demands that she come to the floor because he wants to talk to her face to face. our unit assistant tells him that she is doing staffing for the whole hospital and will be there as soon as she can but it wont be right away.

He stands up and slams his pen down and says forget it, let her know i will be speaking with the vice president of nursing tomorrow. make sure you tell her that! and he leaves. It was unbelievable that a human being would act like that....and the sad thing is, this has happened just as bad if not worse many many times with him in the past.

So my question is, has anyone else ever had to deal with this and how did you react? Are we allowed to stick up for ourselves or do we have to sit there and take it? He has never yelled at me but im sure its bound to happen and i really dont know if i would be able to keep my mouth shut. I was just curious on other people's thoughts on this...

Specializes in Transgender Medicine.

I'm unprofessional after a minute of that stuff. I'll usually either hang up, walk away, or give them an odd look and ask why they feel the need to yell b/c didn't their mommy teach them to use their indoor voice? If they keep on, then I laugh and leave. I just flat don't tolerate that crap from anyone, whether at work or at home. Generally, people who behave this way aren't going to respond to politeness anyway, so I just ignore them, call security, and call the supervisor. Then I write it up. ;)

Specializes in ER/Geriatrics.

I am mortified that any charge nurse would call a nurse to come to the desk at his request. If I was the charge nurse I would tell him to speak to me....he sounds like a man who has a serious pathology involving control and power. I would happily take him on.

O tolerance for abuse of any description.

Specializes in Geriatric, IV, Home Health CAre.

You can only deal with this type in two ways: embarrass them with humor or ignore them completely. Comes from a book titled "Nasty People" Well worth the 96 pages. It takes planning but it usually shuts anyone up fast.....

Is this Guy from SLC, Utah. We had a CT Surgeon fellow who was put on probation after abusing several nurses through out the hospital. I as Supervisor wrote him up as each floor would call with nurses crying from his rants. When I finally caught up with him, and introduced myself as the hospital supervisor, he explained what he wanted. I explained to him that we had no beds and unless he was discharging patients at 4 am, we would have to leave his tele patient in the ER until we had discharges. He started screaming and ask for the supervisor. I again, very slowly explained in front of several nurses and ER doctors again to him that I was the supervisor and my name. I lift weights and have been into muscle building for several years, but his haughty nature didn't make him even afraid of me. When he tried to push a chart into my chest, I leaned forward into his face and explained to him that I wasn't like the other nurses who cry at his inappropriate behavior. He still even after probation and numerous write ups continued until the end of his fellowship. I heard he is in a hospital back east. Hmmmmm! Is it him?

Specializes in Ante-Intra-Postpartum, Post Gyne.

Write him up for verbal abuse. Doctors are not immune to being written up with everyone else.

I worked with a doctor that this describes to a Tee. I was told when I went to work there not to **** him off because he has a lot of power. I was told that many people have lost their jobs because they crossed him. He came in and yelled at me (again) and I had finally had it and I told him to stop yelling at me. I was fired 3 days later. It's a small town and he is the main surgeon that brings in all the patients, therefore has a tremendous amount of power. I was a travel nurse so didn't have the same rights as the regular staff. I would have gotten a lawyer because this was definately a hostile work environment.

Abuse of any kind is unacceptable. My question is does your hospital have a policy reguarding this? Intimidation is no longer acceptable in such a blatant manner. I would start a paper trail on the behavior and use your chain of command. I also would not accept this extreme type of behavior. I have never personally had a physician scream at me but the nurses who I have seen handled it this way. Calmly state I will not stand here and be assaulted when you would like to discuss this in a professional manner than I will speak to you otherwise walk away. Do notify your superior preferably in writing what happened and how you responded. My husband works in a hospital where no disrespect is tolerated by anybody and physicians are disciplined and it has change bad behaved physicians. The bottom line is this behavior can be a draw back to the patient. Ultimately the patient suffers from lack of team work. Good luck and stand strong.

I work on a fast paced med/surg unit in a large hospital. For the most part our surgeons are great caring doctors who are easy to get along with. But we have one especially, who is a peripheral vascular surgeon, that is the most rude, degrading, loud, and angry doctor you could imagine. I mean you should hear the stuff that comes out of his mouth.

We have many good nurses on our floor, we are by no means incompetent. We even have one surgeon that insists his patients come to our floor and our floor only. But this "jerk" doctor will sit in the nurse's station and demand to speak to so and so's nurse and then as soon as they approach him he will lay into them in front of everyone; fellow coworkers, patients, visitors. He usually screams and says what horrible nurses we are and that he should never bring his patients here, and hes just very very degrading and nasty.

For instance tonight one of our nurses had a post-op angioplasty/stent placement patient who was complaining of numbness that just started in his foot and was progressing up to his shin and calf. This was the foot he had just been operated on and he said it had never been numb before and the numbness was spreading. So of course that nurse called the doctor who happened to be the "jerk" doctor. He ended up coming in, assessed the patient, and decided there was no need for concern. Well he came into the nurse's station, plopped down with his feet up, and demanded our unit assistant to get the patient's nurse.

When she didn't appear before him within 30 seconds he demanded to have the nursing supervisor called. In the meantime he is looking around for the patient's chart and sees that the patient's medical doctor is there looking through it. So he leans over, grabs the chart from the other doctor without saying anything, is tearing through it getting what he wants, and then gives it back to the doctor without saying a word.

By this time the nurse had made it to the nurse's station and the first thing he says to her is "have you EVER taken care of a vascular patient before?!" she says yes of course. He then proceeds to rip into her about why would she ever call him when there's nothing even wrong with the patient and that he wants to know how he can have all his patients transferred to another hospital, and so on and so on. I mean he literally yells so you can clearly hear him all the way down the hallway.

Then when he was done with her he demands again where the nursing supervisor is and our unit assistant tells him that she is on the phone but he demands that she come to the floor because he wants to talk to her face to face. our unit assistant tells him that she is doing staffing for the whole hospital and will be there as soon as she can but it wont be right away.

He stands up and slams his pen down and says forget it, let her know i will be speaking with the vice president of nursing tomorrow. make sure you tell her that! and he leaves. It was unbelievable that a human being would act like that....and the sad thing is, this has happened just as bad if not worse many many times with him in the past.

So my question is, has anyone else ever had to deal with this and how did you react? Are we allowed to stick up for ourselves or do we have to sit there and take it? He has never yelled at me but im sure its bound to happen and i really dont know if i would be able to keep my mouth shut. I was just curious on other people's thoughts on this...

Thats awful its really very intimidating behaviour it is a tough enough job without having to cope wit such arrogant behaviour. It is also a concern as it makes him really unapproacable for you as a staff member if you are concerned about any patient under his care. He doesnt just do it to the nurses though as you stated he took the chart from another Dr when they were still using it. I like to call these ones "the roarers" all they do is roar!

Do not record anyone without knowing the law in your particular area, and the rules of your facility.

Some states require consent of all parties to a conversation, some states prohibit public audio recording (which is why there are so many video security cameras without audio).

So, what to do for organizations not willing to correct this kind of behavior in a "too powerful" MD?

You could always surreptitiously call 911 on your cellphone and place it in your front pocket when things start to turn toward violent speech. Throw in a few "Don't touch me again!" type sentences where appropriate for those finger pointers and clip board pushers. And when the officer shows up, the answer is "Yes, I want to press charges." And the operator will have a nice legal recording for you for evidence.

Since this is a work related incident, make sure you immediately go to your personal provider after you have reported off, and file worker's comp due to abuse/assault. You know, just in case stress induced problems or PTSD become an issue. Your MD/DO/NP/PA may even suggest a couple of immediate days off (paid, of course) to allow you to de-stress.

Make sure you emphasize your new hospital stress disability with your PITA manager when s/he gets pushy, by letting them know when they are sounding too much like "Dr. Loudmouth." causing you unwarranted stress and making you feel uncomfortable, which is exactly what they shouldn't do with your work acquired disability, while calling the HR department to request complaint forms.

Encourage all the other assaulted Nurses and Technicians on your floor to do the same. File W/C because of the established problem. And eventually all retire together on a private island somewhere due to work stress, cashing in on disability and a lawsuit against the MD that caused it and the Facility that facilitated it. ;)

Of course, you know I am only joking, right?

Specializes in ER.

POTR

Way to abuse the system. I was with you right through pressing charges, but seeing your doc, and days off because someone was an ass and yelled- no way.

Along POTR's sarcastic vein...

since I am tall (long-armed and long-legged) it will be hard not to use my vertical advantage when being annoyed by a short little f-tard of a doc. I have noticed that it's usually the little ones that have those annoying red-faced fall on the floor temper tantrums where you have to pick them up by the back of their shirt collars and try to get them to just stand up so you can have a conversation with them - which - is just worthless since they then act like they have legs of rubber and refuse to stand, just flopping down to the floor again to resume screaming - so - then you have to pick them up around the waist and haul them out to the car and drive them home - where - they will not get any desert after dinner tonight...

I have been known to hold something way high over one's head out of reach and then ask them to try and get it :devil:. Have not done this to a doc (yet). But did do it to a vertically challenged and irritating RT when he was getting a little out of control with me when I was a student :D

POTR

Way to abuse the system. I was with you right through pressing charges, but seeing your doc, and days off because someone was an ass and yelled- no way.

:)

I guess you missed the little winkie, and the "Of course, you know I am only joking, right?"

Rule number 42 is, The best humorous yarn always starts off with a totally plausible setting, before turning totally asinine.

Actually, there is no rule 42, I just made that up.

Well, really, I didn't make all of that up, 42 is just funny.

Um... well, 42 isn't really just funny, it's only funny if you've read The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

er... and then only if you thought that was funny.

and only if you remember your towel. :jester:

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