School Reputation

ixchel · Oct 15, 2015

OP, even if you intend to move away after graduation, I still think it would help to learn local reputation. Local reputation may very well linger outside of the local area.

Not sure if this will help you, but I made an article ages ago entitled "don't choose a school before answering these questions". It borders what you are discussing here and adds other important points you might consider.

oldsockventriloquist · Oct 16, 2015

OP, even if you intend to move away after graduation, I still think it would help to learn local reputation. Local reputation may very well linger outside of the local area.
Not sure if this will help you, but I made an article ages ago entitled "don't choose a school before answering these questions". It borders what you are discussing here and adds other important points you might consider.

I actually wrote this thread based on that article you wrote. In it, you talk about discussing the reputation of a school with people involved in the hiring process. However, it can be very difficult to gain access to such individuals. Meaning a lot of nurse managers that do the hiring might not want to talk to individuals about school reputations. That applies to HR department that might be involved in the actual decision to choose a person. The only option left is to look for job fairs, where someone would be present to answer such questions, which rarely occur where I live. And I imagine if I called a school and asked them whether their grads are hired straight out of school, I probably would get a biased answer.

In addition, I would be applying to potentially a couple of different states. Some employers might tell me they have heard good things about the school, while others say the opposite or have never heard of the school. So, I could make a list of those results, but it might be better to ask them what they generally want to see in a program (since I'll receive such variation when I inquire about school preference).

DoGoodThenGo · Oct 16, 2015

For a good part of recent nursing history and we're talking going back to starched whites and caps yes, schools had reputations. Some excellent others not so much. Some schools did indeed have nationally know reputations for producing excellent graduates. This is one of the reasons alumni of such schools place or placed a high value on their caps (when such things were standard issue). If you were a graduate of say Mount Sinai Hospital School of Nursing in New York, but ended up working out in say North Carolina or Chicago the foreign headgear may have been alien to the locals however the place's reputation was known.

Bellevue, Flower and Fifth, Saint Vincent's Manhattan, Columbia University, New York Hospital, Philadelphia General Hospital and so many others not only were known for producing excellent graduates but their contributions to the profession overall. If you look at the "history" pages of some of these schools you'll find listing after listing of innovations such as protocols, standards of care and so forth that are still being used today.

Obviously out of the thousands of nursing programs past and present not every one was "rock star" so to speak quality. However local facilities make it their business to have at least a passing acquaintance with some knowledge of what is out there.

The world of nursing is surprisingly not as vast as many think, especially locally. No one wears caps (or pins) anymore but administration at least certainly knows where people went to school. If enough graduates of this or that program have "issues" it can be enough to send up red flags for future hires. OTOH if things go the other way it can "grease the wheels" in terms of getting a foot past the door.

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Oct 16, 2015

That is correct. But, I wanted to see if I should really pay for expensive programs that could give me a BSN, if I would earn the same opportunities elsewhere. Is there anyway you could be more descriptive? I imagine that any program will have some training in EM or critical care. What more could they offer while I'm a student to help me start in those positions? I have read in other threads that people can start off in telemetry or Ned surf. Would I be applying to those same units when I graduate?

"Ned surf"....LOL, I hope you were using voice recognition on your phone when doing this and didn't notice the gaff If you mean "med-surg", that IS the normal stomping ground of new grads, not a highly competitive specialized unit.

As far as seeking a school that will prepare you better than others for a specialty you desire....there isn't one. Every school with appropriate accreditation (and you WANT this, believe me) will have a core curriculum that meets the standards for producing a graduate nurse. NONE of them will have a specialty focus; American nurses are produced as generalists, overall knowledge, and specialties are chosen later--additional education comes later for those areas.

Some areas of the country are so full of new grads that you can't hope to start off in your dream job no matter WHAT you do. Just too many candidates for each job opening. SOME areas will have less of a glut, and new grads CAN get themselves into specialty areas right after graduation.

It's not a hard and fast rule that you must do med-surg first, then go from there.....but some areas have such heavy competition for ICU and ED, other critical care areas, that they simply will not consider anyone who does not have a strong foundation (AFTER graduation) in general medical care units. Some places, sure...you can get in...others, forget it.

You will have to do your research once you're ready for graduation to see where you can work, in what areas, and whether you will need to move to another State to get what you want. You are still YEARS away from that, and we cannot possibly know what the hiring is like in your backyard, so...you are a bit premature just now in figuring out how to get into a specialty when you haven't yet gotten into a nursing school! Just logic, there :)

Find a school with a sound reputation for graduates' employment and NCLEX passing rates, as well as national accreditation (so you can transfer credits or get them accepted into a grad school program later if you want). NO school is going to "better prepare you" for any specialty, though.

oldsockventriloquist · Oct 16, 2015

"Ned surf"....LOL, I hope you were using voice recognition on your phone when doing this and didn't notice the gaff If you mean "med-surg", that IS the normal stomping ground of new grads, not a highly competitive specialized unit.
As far as seeking a school that will prepare you better than others for a specialty you desire....there isn't one. Every school with appropriate accreditation (and you WANT this, believe me) will have a core curriculum that meets the standards for producing a graduate nurse. NONE of them will have a specialty focus; American nurses are produced as generalists, overall knowledge, and specialties are chosen later--additional education comes later for those areas.
Some areas of the country are so full of new grads that you can't hope to start off in your dream job no matter WHAT you do. Just too many candidates for each job opening. SOME areas will have less of a glut, and new grads CAN get themselves into specialty areas right after graduation.
It's not a hard and fast rule that you must do med-surg first, then go from there.....but some areas have such heavy competition for ICU and ED, other critical care areas, that they simply will not consider anyone who does not have a strong foundation (AFTER graduation) in general medical care units. Some places, sure...you can get in...others, forget it.
You will have to do your research once you're ready for graduation to see where you can work, in what areas, and whether you will need to move to another State to get what you want. You are still YEARS away from that, and we cannot possibly know what the hiring is like in your backyard, so...you are a bit premature just now in figuring out how to get into a specialty when you haven't yet gotten into a nursing school! Just logic, there :)
Find a school with a sound reputation for graduates' employment and NCLEX passing rates, as well as national accreditation (so you can transfer credits or get them accepted into a grad school program later if you want). NO school is going to "better prepare you" for any specialty, though.

Yes, I just realized that autocorrect from my computer made that mistake and I did not catch it. If you look at my previous posts, you'd see that I've used the term med-surg, so hopefully one typo does not invalidate my post.

Anyway, one of main reasons I created this thread was to see besides accreditation and NCLEX pass rates, if there is anything else that I should look for. From the various threads on this forum, it seems that reputation could be an issue and I wanted to see if there was a method of contacting people involved in the hiring process.

ixchel · Oct 16, 2015

I actually wrote this thread based on that article you wrote. In it, you talk about discussing the reputation of a school with people involved in the hiring process. However, it can be very difficult to gain access to such individuals. Meaning a lot of nurse managers that do the hiring might not want to talk to individuals about school reputations. That applies to HR department that might be involved in the actual decision to choose a person. The only option left is to look for job fairs, where someone would be present to answer such questions, which rarely occur where I live. And I imagine if I called a school and asked them whether their grads are hired straight out of school, I probably would get a biased answer.
In addition, I would be applying to potentially a couple of different states. Some employers might tell me they have heard good things about the school, while others say the opposite or have never heard of the school. So, I could make a list of those results, but it might be better to ask them what they generally want to see in a program (since I'll receive such variation when I inquire about school preference).

(((Blush)))

I feel a bit silly now!

I do think job fairs will be a great place. You might be surprised by HR departments and hiring managers. If they know you haven't narrowed your choices yet, they may be more inclined to respond. You'll hear a lot that there is no nursing shortage, but some areas have so many nurse job-hoppers that management and HR WANTS good recruits because they're planning ahead.

I think you are off to a fantastic start and the fact that you are planning ahead is, in my opinion, a predictor of your future success.

ixchel · Oct 16, 2015

That is correct. But, I wanted to see if I should really pay for expensive programs that could give me a BSN, if I would earn the same opportunities elsewhere. Is there anyway you could be more descriptive? I imagine that any program will have some training in EM or critical care. What more could they offer while I'm a student to help me start in those positions? I have read in other threads that people can start off in telemetry or Ned surf. Would I be applying to those same units when I graduate?

Being that you appear to have a bachelor's degree, Accelerated BSN programs would be worth looking into. I understand expense is the main difference between ADN and BSN, if you do go to an area that favors BSN, you won't regret it. You may also end up paying more in the long run if you find a facility that accepts your ADN but requires an eventual BSN.

SleeepyRN · Oct 19, 2015

(FYI, when accreditation is formally awarded, it is retroactive back to the date of the ACEN (or CCNE) site visit, which usually occurs a year or two before the final determination of accreditation. Even if you had already graduated and were gone from the school before the accreditation process was completed, you would be "covered," and considered a graduate of an accredited program going forward, as long as you had been a student at the time of the site visit.)

I actually miss spoke. They had their final evaluation or whatever they do the semester I graduated. The accreditation process was still ongoing. It wasn't official til after I graduated, but before that, our instructors explained to us just what you did. That it would be retroactive.