Salary question??

foxyhill21 · Feb 24, 2006

No student loans (thank goodness)

I respect your opinion, but should you get more per hour just so you can pay off those high student loans? Do you do anything different than your co-workers? I do feel for all those out there that sweated through 4 long years and I know it was hard, but you know everytime someone brings up this pay difference it is because of their student loans which will take a very long time to pay off. MY total output for two years was probably $500, books and any tuition. Cheap, huh! But that was almost 30 years ago. Unless you are management we all do the same work for the same pay. I do, though, feel employers should recognize all forms of higher education, not only degree wise but certification wise. PALS,ACLS, CCRN, CNOR(mine) and such should get nod over others because, let's face it, these cert tests are extremey hard. Good luck anyway

I just think if you hold a Bachelors degree you should get paid more... (people are always saying go get a bachelors and u will get paid more.. but I have found that to be very untrue)... maybe it depends on what type of Bachelors degree it is....

Just wondering-why should they get paid more? Strictly because of the initial outlay? Just curious. We always argue this at my workplace. I went back to Nursing after working a few years as a Pharmacist, took a bit of a pay cut-but I like it a LOT better. And the work is much MUCH harder- I think.

Nutmeg5575 · Feb 24, 2006

I agree that someone with a bachelors should get paid more. Everyone knows in most systems education=money. More education is more knowledge and hard work. I am only getting my associates but I plan to go back for my Bachelors and then Masters. The more effort you make to further your education the more rewards should be given. I think it is silly that if you work hard at continuing your education to make the same as someone who has done nothing (the bare minimum) to further their education. Most professions go by that theory that more education = more money. I'm not saying that both individuals don't work hard. I know they both work hard. But if the nursing profession wants more nurses to have a bachelors then maybe they should pay them more. Just a thought.

Jo Dirt · Feb 24, 2006

I am working on a bachelor's degree because while the ASN and BSN may be qualified equally in many areas from everything I can see if a BSN and ASN were neck-to-neck that BSN might be what nuges you on ahead.

Also, to work in fields such as pharmaceutical rep. you need a BSN.

dorimar, BSN, RN · Feb 24, 2006

I have SO much emotion tied to this subject, I don't even know where to begin. Firstly, I went to a TRUE 2 year ADN program at an accredited school of nursing (PURDUE). They looked at all my high school grades and SAT's before they even allowed me in. It was tough to be accepted into to this program. After I got accepted, i started IMMEDIATLEY in the summer after I graduated high school. I took 17-18 credit hours at a time, taking my clinicals at the same time-- Writing papers, taking tests, and writing care plans while taking micro biology, & making clinicals at the same time. I wish my dad could see these posts. I remember many a night i was at the kitchen table at 1 AM and him telling me "You must be doing something wrong. Surely they wouldn't expect you to stay up this late and go to the hospital in the morning". I swear to God that is how it was. I graduated @ age 20. I have been a RN for over 20 years (always working in the hospital). I went back later on my own for my BS (for my own satisfaction, not because anyone pays me more). I have worked ICU for 18 years now and have gotten my CCRN as well. I make a decent living, and only that. I advanced myself (BS & CCRN) for myself & nothing more (not receiving anymore pay or compensation).

Here is the thing- It is a very tough job. Because of THAT, there is a shortage. Because of the shortage, there is alot of opportunity out there for nurses (good pay depending on where you choose to work, flexible hours, traveling, career advancement, etc). I believe this makes alot of people go into the profession that should have NEVER chosen this line of work.

I think that because the job is SO busy and that we are SO liable, that nurses today are more task oriented, and forget the compassion (unless they chose nursing for nursing, and not all the fringe benefits). Also, because of the shortage, the schools have decreased their requirements, and I think the quaulity of the nursing programs has dramatically diminished. consequently, we are not only seeing less compassion in the field, but less competance.

I have seen it stated on this very forum that, "It is NEVER ok to cry at work". But I believe that the nurse that can take care of a 30 Y/O teacher & mother of 3 young children, dying of metastaic breast CA & not cry, needs to choose another line of work. I do. If you are more worried about getting your break, than really doing a good job, then please get a new career. And if hospital managers & administrators think it is ok to staff their ICU with non caring people that can't pass a basic critical care knowledge assessment, then they shouldn't get to hand pick the nurses taking care of their loved ones when they are admitted into the hospitals where they work.

I know this doesn't come off well or sit well with many of you, and I really am not trying to generalize. I know there are a lot of great new nurses out there, and if you knew me you would know that I am very supportive of you. I guess it is the colleges, management and administrators of hospitals i am dissapointed in for lowering their standards.

Goldenhare · Feb 27, 2006

"I agree that someone with a bachelors should get paid more."

BUT WHY?????????????????????????

I have a 4 yr BS and a 2yr ADN. It seems to me that if the BSN's want to be paid more than the ADN's, then they politically and possibly technically, they must change the expectations and requirements of the state boards of nursing and of the employers. As of now, in the entry level job, we work side by side, doing the same job with the same responsiblilties. The state boards of nursing say that the basic requirement for this entry level job is to be considered a "safe practice nurse", which means PASSING THE NCLEX. That's it!! The degrees are a means to the end. You cannot be employed as an RN if you don't pass the NCLEX, no matter what your level of education or how how many degress you have. If the bsn wants to be paid more, then raise the bar above the basic requirements, which is the NCLEX.

:banghead:

Goldenhare · Feb 27, 2006

Fonenurse, I think if the exchange rate is 1.7403, then 32500 will be $56,559.75, PA. Probably almost same in UK....don't you agree. ..:rotfl: :rotfl:

No, actually.......Having lived in the UK for 9 years, I can just about guarantee that (she?) means 20,000 DOLLARS a year, or there about. Housing is higher than here on average (any uk realty website will confirm this. Morgages are given for up to 4 times your take home pay!). We found prices on average were 1/3 higher on food. For instance, a pound of apples in the UK were 2 dollars and the same pound of apples here were 1 dollar twenty five. Cost of living in London is absolutely prohibitive! It is the 2nd or 3rd most expensive city in the WORLD. Love to visit though!!!!:)

danigirl58 · Feb 27, 2006

Where I am from (Canada) many of the Provinces are starting the practice of only educating nurses at the BSN level. I know that there are a few 2 year diploma nursing programs that are left up here but basically everyone else must do there BsN ..... or LPN for those that are at that level. In my province diploma trained nurses can not apply for many jobs because they do not have the BsN (such as community work needs the BsN) positions such as the clinical resource nurse are usually only BsN unless they have over 10 years of experience. Now I am graduating with my BsN soon and know that the diploma nurses here have the same basic nursing education but the BSN's have addition broad education to go into many different types of specialties.

Heres my thoughts on the pay of BsN's: if two new nursing students came out of a program, one being a diploma and the other being a BsN i do believe that the BsN should be paid more :chair:. however if theres a BsN with little experience and a diploma with a lot of experience then I believe that the experience that a nurse has should ultimately decide the wage

Nutmeg5575 · Feb 27, 2006

"I agree that someone with a bachelors should get paid more."
BUT WHY?????????????????????????
I have a 4 yr BS and a 2yr ADN. It seems to me that if the BSN's want to be paid more than the ADN's, then they politically and possibly technically, they must change the expectations and requirements of the state boards of nursing and of the employers. As of now, in the entry level job, we work side by side, doing the same job with the same responsiblilties. The state boards of nursing say that the basic requirement for this entry level job is to be considered a "safe practice nurse", which means PASSING THE NCLEX. That's it!! The degrees are a means to the end. You cannot be employed as an RN if you don't pass the NCLEX, no matter what your level of education or how how many degress you have. If the bsn wants to be paid more, then raise the bar above the basic requirements, which is the NCLEX.

Because in every job except for nursing the more education you have the higher your salary is. My uncle flys helicopters and he never went to college. His friend did and they do the same thing but his friend makes more money. If you spend more time on educating yourself you should get paid more. They can't say nurses with their associates can't nurse because of the shortage, however they can encourage students to get their bachelors by paying more to those with higher education.

GilbertDaddy · Feb 28, 2006

I may be able to toss some insight here. I was a little shocked that a BSN doesn't really make any more, but in the end that does end up making sense I suppose. Job positions typically have a set range. Unless there are "Senior" positions available to those with a ton of advanced certifications, or college diplomas, you really can't (and shouldn't) expect more.

For some reference, having been in IT for a long time, I've seen tons of folks come and go with or without diplomas. It's less about the piece of paper and more about the experience and sets of skills you bring. As technology moves so fast, a diploma isn't worth the paper it's written on since everything you learned is now outdated, save for the theory classes.

I was in college for my CIS (Comp. Info Systems) degree until I got lured away by the boom to make some quick cash. Never went back once I saw how it was.

The secret? A killer resume. Lots of jobs get you experienced to a multitude of roles that you put on that piece of paper and from job to job, just make sure you are being paid more (or don't leave). The more jobs an employer sees on a resume (with a decent amount of time in between or a very good reason), the more apt he/she is to believe you've had a ton of experience. For example, not only have you had 2 years of ICU knowledge, but you've done it in 3-4 hospital settings, been accustomed to TONS of different sets of rules, ways of doing things, etc.

BUT... this is a different industry.

I think someone earlier hit the nail on the head - what do RNs with a BSN do differently than those with an AAS?

Until the hospital or place of employ provides a mechanism to "step up", I doubt you'll see this change.

Does it suck? Of course! Should you have known this before jumping head first into the lake, hey, that's your call. Should you be upset about it? No, if you keep blaming others for your own unhappiness, it can never change. Once you realize it's all on YOU, you are suddenly afforded the opportunity to fix things :)

I'm new to nursing, just working on my pre-reqs (my last stint in college was all for business pre-reqs so I avoided science lol), but it's important to research what's available to you. I see a BSN as less of an imcome-raiser, and more of a step to move on to something else that requires that education (CRNA, etc.).

One thing I can't help but thinking though, is that the RN business in general is that, MUCH LIKE, the IT industry - it's cannabilistic. So many coders are so set in their way that the new guys come in, making 10k less (or the same), are 10 years younger, and they feel they shouldn't be. So they "push" them out. Much like in the nursing industry where you have some L&N nurses (when we had our 2 kids I saw this often) that may have been there for 25+ years treating the new nurses like CRAP! When so many people are competing for the same apple, there's no incentive to work together.

This is why you are seeing jobs getting outsourced, why the wage of an IT professional is NOT going up (and if so, barely to meet inflation unless you are specialized or working as a contractor), etc.

Unions may not be the answer because when things are good they can actually hurt you, but organization is VERY important. Unless more rights are pushed for across the board by a collection of professionals, we're likely to be stuck in the same mousetrap forever

I hear this is different in the CRNA business due to lobbies and whatnot, but perhaps someone more experienced could speak up. I'm definitely not an expert here :)

Nutmeg5575 · Feb 28, 2006

I don't want anyone to think I'm complaining b/c I'm in fact getting an ADN. I'm just saying that if they want more BSNs they should pay them more and it seems if you have more education you should get paid more.

If a BSN and a ADN nurse do the same thing and get paid the same and have the same knowledge why must an ADN nurse go and get her/his BSN before going to school for APN? Why not skip that step?

GilbertDaddy · Feb 28, 2006

I totally agree! If the job pays more for the BSN, it's of value, but it's a shame when they demand more education for the same pay

Goldenhare · Feb 28, 2006

If a BSN and a ADN nurse do the same thing and get paid the same and have the same knowledge why must an ADN nurse go and get her/his BSN before going to school for APN? Why not skip that step?

.....because, you are educating yourself for the next level, not the level you are already in.

And as far as the argument that more education means more pay, that is not always true. The job I did in my first career (BS degree) is now being done by people with 2 yr degrees, same pay.

My sister in law has a 2 yr EE degree and is making the same money as a BSEE degree with the same experience. Sometimes more education means that you place your self OUT of the job market (remember the MBA push from about 10 years ago? Many of those people , especially towards the end of the push, came into a job market saturated by other MBA's!) When you look at furthering your education, you most also look at the requirements of the job you want. The entry level nursing job requires EITHER a diploma, a ADN, or a BSN, and a pass on the NCLEX. That's it! I don't have a problem with the BSN being required for entry level nursing, but if this is what the BSN crowd wants, then the burden is on them to redefine the role of the entry level nurse.