RPN/LPN/RNA all the same???

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I've been looking for information on nursing and the different levels of nursing. I'm getting a little confused. Are RPN/LPN/RNA all the same??? Also, I heard from a friend that Practical Nursing is going to be phased out in Canada and everyone's going to have to be trained as an RN as of 2010. Is this true??? Any info will be great!

Specializes in Geriatrics, Med-Surg..

I would say that RPN employment in hospitals may vary depending on the area, but it is unlikely they will be phased out in Ontario or anywhere where the BSN is the requirement for RN licensure because it would cause a huge shortage. Most provinces in Canada will not allow RPN or RN education to be done by any private colleges, at least not in Ontario and this is turn reduces the number of seats in government funded colleges. In addition, RPN's have a fairly wide scope if they are diploma grads which includes initial assessments, IV starts and monitoring, catheters and on and on. That said, I have to say that there are far more opportunities for RN's.

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Specializes in Acute Care, Rehab, Palliative.
I disagree, Lori. Here in the U.S., the LPN is, in fact, being "phased out" of the acute care setting, which is unfortunate, but happening nonetheless. I would bet my last :twocents: that it won't be long before Canada follows.

Regards,

Michael

Pn programs here are expanding and improving and there are plenty of jobs. I doubt this would be the case if it was going the way of the dinosaur.

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Specializes in Geriatrics, Med-Surg..

I am aware of which hospital system loriangel14 works in and they do indeed hire RPN's, and always have, so she is simply being honest. In that regard though, there are some hospitals in the GTA in Ontario that are all RN but they are few however I still am not really sure what the new RPN role is going to be as things are changing quickly with the newer RN requirements.

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Specializes in Acute Care, Rehab, Palliative.

Hey linzz, I forgot you and I have talked before.How's it going?

Yea you are right. Mount Sinai and Sick Kids are two that don't hire RPNs. We were talking this at work the other day and I asked my coworkers if they had seen any impact from the new RN requirements but they said they hadn't seen any yet. Our facility is about 50/50 when it comes to RN/RPN ratios.

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Specializes in LTC.

Agreed. PN programs here is the States are also expanding and improving and there are plenty of jobs. However, those jobs have gone from being largely acute to largely LTC. This did not happen overnight, but it DID happen, as I believe it will happen in Canada as well...eventually.

Regards,

Michael

Pn programs here are expanding and improving and there are plenty of jobs. I doubt this would be the case if it was going the way of the dinosaur.
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Specializes in Acute Care, Rehab, Palliative.

I disagree. The role of the RPN in Ontario is growing, with employers using RPNs in ever expanding roles. Most acute care facilities in my area are very RPN friendly. The trend here is growth not dying. Remember this is Canada, not the US. Things are different up here.

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Agreed. PN programs here is the States are also expanding and improving and there are plenty of jobs. However, those jobs have gone from being largely acute to largely LTC. This did not happen overnight, but it DID happen, as I believe it will happen in Canada as well...eventually.

Regards,

Michael

I hate to beat you over the head with facts but here goes. In Alberta there are approximately 5900 working LPNs. The majority of whom work in ACTIVE treatment. This means acute care, ICU, dialysis, orthopedics, the OR, pretty much every unit of the hospital except the NICU. Our practice has expanded into community health, the provincial psychiatric hospital, and the prison system.

We are not a dinosaur here, but a valued and respected (for the most part) nurse.

By the year 2020, CNA is predicting that PN education will be the entry point for all nurses. They also forsee that these will be hospital based nurses with the BScN taking more of an administrative role.

If we were to phased out our province would be short over 7000 nurses at this point in time.

Don't tar all on North America with what has happened in your country.

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Specializes in LTC.
Don't tar all on North America with what has happened in your country.

This discussion has nothing to do with nationalism. I'm sorry you felt the need to play that card.

I will, however, speak to your facts, as they reflect what is happening in Canada. These same "facts" seemed immutable in America 20 years ago as well.

In the 1980's, LVNs were also plentiful in the acute care setting, ICU, dialysis, orthopedics, the OR, pretty much every unit of the hospital INCLUDING the NICU.

In 2008, the majority of LVNs have been moved out (not willingly) from the hospital system; all 70,0000 of them.

In the 1980's LVNs were ALREADY in community health, home health, the psychiatric and prison system.

In the 1980's it was predicted that LVNs would grow exponentially, with upper-level degree nurses taking on more administrative posts.

LVN "schools" have grown, but they are now viewed a stepping stones into the opportunity-heavy RN field. I don't see Canada as "following the American lead' anymore than you do, but I DO see them following the historical progression of nursing.

So, as you can see, I don't place a great amount of credence in "predictors." I look at historical trends in nursing. NOT in historical trends in nursing in the U.S., or the U.K. or Australia, or France, or even Canada, but in historical nursing trends in the First World.

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Specializes in Acute Care, Rehab, Palliative.

We are just saying that you cannot use the US as a measuring stick for up here. We are not the same.

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Specializes in Geriatrics, Med-Surg..

I agree, it is very different here in Canada, our medical system is closer to that of Europe than the United States. I don't think that the historical progression of nursing utilization applies though, for a few reasons such as the RPN education here in Canada is not usually a stepping stone to be an RN, if one wants to be an RN, you can just do it, as many schools in Ontario don't have wait lists and it takes longer to do an RPN before doing an RN, the other thing is that the RN licence is now a BSN as a minimum requirement which creates fewer nurses in the system eventually.

It is just a very different thing with tax funded care, not better, just different. The other issue here is that hospital employment has not always been stable even for RN's. It is not always easy to obtain full time employment here, even for RN's. Sometimes the whims of the government rule the day.

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Specializes in Geriatrics, Med-Surg..

Just thought of something to add, the College of Nurses of Ontario, Canada keeps statistics on which area RN's and RPN's are employed in. I have also noticed that here in Canada we have many RN's in LTC as it is a government requirement to have an RN on staff, even in retirement facilities. The other reality is that within the next ten years, Canada is going to have a lot of old people and not as many young people and keeping the elderly is hospitals is not something our government will be willing to pay to do, so I am guessing that many jobs will be LTC, like it or not. JMO.

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Specializes in LTC.
I agree, it is very different here in Canada, our medical system is closer to that of Europe than the United States.

Agreed. And what I would give to have that system here! :chuckle

I don't think that the historical progression of nursing utilization applies though, for a few reasons such as the RPN education here in Canada is not usually a stepping stone to be an RN, if one wants to be an RN, you can just do it, as many schools in Ontario don't have wait lists and it takes longer to do an RPN before doing an RN, the other thing is that the RN licence is now a BSN as a minimum requirement which creates fewer nurses in the system eventually.

Perhaps.

However, I believe the continued advancement of medical sciences (and the associated nursing knowledge and skills set needed) will dictate the future placement of the RPN in Canada as it has for the LVN here in the states.

An expanded educational model will have to follow. How Canada will address that, of course, remains to be seen.

Nevertheless, you both are there, I am not, so I bow to your perspective here.

The point I was attempting (poorly) to make is that in portions of your nation, the shift is already beginning (Mount Sinai and Sick Kids are two that don't hire RPNs.)

That is also how it started here. Kaiser Permanente and Mercy lead this trend...soon enough, other followed.

It is just a very different thing with tax funded care, not better, just different. The other issue here is that hospital employment has not always been stable even for RN's. It is not always easy to obtain full time employment here, even for RN's. Sometimes the whims of the government rule the day.

Oftentimes the whims of our government rule the day here as well. And our citizens seem to pay the price for their stupidity.

I have enjoyed our examination of the two different systems. My (modest) knowledge of nursing history is always enriched through local perspective.

Thank you for allowing me to speak within your forum.

Best Regards,

Michael :)

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