RN vs. PA

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my team @ work is having difficulty with physician assistants attitude that they are superior to us:down:, are able to dictate how we prioritize the acuity we have:angryfire, and general things like...they'll walk out of a patient's room and find a nurse to take a patient off of a bed pan.:madface: (it takes them longer to find a nurse rather than do it themselves.)

this has angered many nurses. is anyone else experiencing this attitude with pa's in the er setting? our physicians and their pa's are not employed by the hospital but are contracted exclusively for our facility.

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Specializes in ER/SICU/Med-Surg/Ortho/Trauma/Flight.

I have a problem with them, Im a house sup., but my problem is I have alot of PA trainee's who are under mine and the physicians watch on a certain shift, and I have one in particular, who will literally tell me and mine you this is a trainee, she will literally tell you, when one of us asks her to do something she will tell us and I quote her "Thats a nurses job, you do it." Im like hello, you do know that I get to do one of your evaluations for school right, and besides thats not wise to tell a nursing supervisor that.

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Specializes in Critical Care, Emergency, Education, Informatics.

My first response, was, get a life, get over it, They aren't nurses, and I'ts NOT a PA vs nurse thing. I've seen pleny of NP's who will go get a staff nurse to get someone off a bed pan. It's NOT in their job description. It sounds to me like the problem is in the culture of the facility your working in. Or in the individual personalities of the people involved. I would hazard to guess that your Doc's don't take pt's off bedpans either.

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Specializes in ER/CCU/Military Nursing.

The PAs hat work with us in my ER are great to work with. They will help out when we need it. The NP's will as well. I guess it depends on the person.

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Specializes in ED.

I wouldn't expect a PA, NP or MD to take a pt off a bed pan. Not that this justifies any of the other behavior that you explain. But I don't think they should be taking pt off bed pans!

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I'm not a PA or MD, however if I was I probably wouldn't be taking pts. off bed pans either. Why spend all the time going to school to do that...one of the reasons I am furthering my education. I am currently a CNA and I don't want to wipe behinds and give showers for the rest of my life, but since it is my job to do that now I do that. I don't expect the RNS or LPNS to help out...if they do great...but if not I know my job description and theirs, and I do my job.

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Specializes in ER, Infusion therapy, Oncology.

I have never met a PA or NP that would take a patient off a bedpan, and frankly, I would never consider asking one. They are considered one step below a physician and I would never ask a physician to either. I know of some ER's that have them in triage for the purpose of setting acuity levels and sorting out what needs to go to the main ER, minor care, or discharged from triage. In our EC they run the minor care area. They can also write prescriptions. Considering their education level and their MUCH wider scope of practice they should be beyond bedpans.

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Specializes in ICU, Psych.
I have a problem with them, Im a house sup., but my problem is I have alot of PA trainee's who are under mine and the physicians watch on a certain shift, and I have one in particular, who will literally tell me and mine you this is a trainee, she will literally tell you, when one of us asks her to do something she will tell us and I quote her "Thats a nurses job, you do it." Im like hello, you do know that I get to do one of your evaluations for school right, and besides thats not wise to tell a nursing supervisor that.

I thought about this for a long time and hate to agree with the PA trainee. But she is right, it is our(RN,LPN,CNA) job and not the PA's job. I would also say that a NP, acting in an advance practice position would also be excluded from this being their job. We would not ever expect the docs to do direct patient care either.:twocents:

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Specializes in ER/SICU/Med-Surg/Ortho/Trauma/Flight.

No Michael, its not that weve asked her to take anyone off a bed pan or something minor like that, I mean like if some of my nurses cant get an IV started, theyll ask her or to do a procedure, because when they ask a doc they will tell them to ask one of the PA's or trainees, well this certain PA all she does is set at the desk always relying on others, so of course I mean this is my job anyways but Ill have to tramp all the way down to er and do it, its not that I mind, but you have to realize I am running 2 units, ER and SICU, If im busy in ICU I cant trample down to er everytime someone gets a whim for me to, I mean Im great at sticking people, but Im not the only one, but thats fine the other night I got her, she told me to do something and that it was a nursing job, so I had three people waiting to get sutures, well she told me to come and help her, so I told her that I was sorry to ask one of the LPN's or techs and that I had plenty of nursing stuff to do and that sutures are a PA's or MD's job so she would have to do them, Its not that I mind doing stuff or helping until someone gets bossy and down right rude with me or my nursing staff, thats all.

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I am amazed with the responses to this issue! It doesn't matter the educational level a person has or that it is not in a "person's job description"... what matters is that a patient is on a bedpan, which is uncomfortable to be sitting on... and needs to get off! So if a clinical person is in the room, a doctor, NP, PA, RN, LPN or CNA, and a patient requests to get off of the bedpan JUST TAKE THE PATIENT OFF OF THE BEDPAN! Those of us in healthcare are SUPPOSED to be in it to help patients which sometimes may mean helping them off a bedpan!

By the way most jobs I have had the job descriptions have ALWAYS included a statement such as "...and whatever else the boss says is part your job." Why is it nurses could do housekeeping, dietary, maintenance, respiratory therapy, lab, CPD etc... and other "professions" are not expected to? Nurses are not the only members of the team.....and getting a patient off the bedpan is not anything beneath ANYONE who is really there to help people!

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Specializes in CNA, Surgical, Pediatrics, SDS, ER.

I agee w/ that 100%! :yeah:

I started out as a CNA and when I became a nurse I never told my aides that "I'm a RN now, that is your job so I will not help you." :nono: Treat your staff well & they will scratch your back if you scratch theirs! ;)

If their were more important areas that deserved her attention then I could see that but if she was doing nothing then she needs a talkin too. How long does it take to get a pt off a bedpan? Only a few minutes and it sounds like she had the time to spare.

I don't feel that anything a nurse does should be beneath any of the medical professionals but a lot of times we get treated that way. Unfortunalty that's how it is but that doesn't mean that we should have to put up w/ it.:p

I'm a firm believer in what goes around comes around so I'm sure it'll come back to bite her eventually!:nurse:

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I have never met a PA or NP that would take a patient off a bedpan, and frankly, I would never consider asking one. They are considered one step below a physician and I would never ask a physician to either. I know of some ER's that have them in triage for the purpose of setting acuity levels and sorting out what needs to go to the main ER, minor care, or discharged from triage. In our EC they run the minor care area. They can also write prescriptions. Considering their education level and their MUCH wider scope of practice they should be beyond bedpans.

In our ER the PAs have no higher education than many of the RNs. Maybe I should elaborate...Our PAs work primarily ESIs of 4 and 5. We had 2 STEMIs and a seizuring 5 month old and the PA came into a room to tell the RN working on a crashing MI about the paient down the hall needing off the bedpan. Perhaps that explains the nursing frustration. And no....They do not have a wider scope of practice then the RNs in a Level I Trauma Center.

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