RN Vs. PA?

carolinapooh, BSN, RN · Feb 6, 2006

I don't want to open another can of worms but there doesn't seem to be a standardized educational background for the PA. That is what I see at least here in the land of cornfields. The ANCC now requires a minimum of a masters degree to attain APN status. What type of standardization does the PA education offer?
Just curious as I had not considered a PA when I decided to do the APN route simply because there are no programs nearby.

I haven't seen a standardized course to becoming a nurse, either.

To be a PA, you are now required to have a Master's degree. That seems pretty standard to me. The nursing community seems to still be struggling with what the standard entry to practice is for my chosen profession...

Trauma Columnist · Feb 6, 2006

Thanks - I appreciate the info. The reason I ask is that I used to work with two RNs in our ER who went to North Dakota for a 13 month program to become a PA. This particular program didn't give a masters degree but am unsure if it is still in existence. This was about five years ago.

carolinapooh, BSN, RN · Feb 6, 2006

My research pulled up that the BS has been phased out, so five years ago there very well may have been a program like that (13 mos to PA).

Another reason I picked nursing (not the biggest reason, but it was a swing factor) was a nursing degree seems to be more "portable" internationally. I'm married to a Brit, and we always talk about potentially heading back overseas in a few years. I researched the international angle with a few phone calls to London the last time I was in the UK a few months ago, I spoke to a few British nurses I know from when we lived in Saudi Arabia, and talked to a colleague (sp?) here at my office who's American but worked as an RN in the UK for many years. It seemed to come back that NPs and advanced practice nurses are recognized, but PAs are not and there isn't really a common equivalent over there yet. So to avoid any possible hangups, I continued towards the nursing track.

BlocDoc · Feb 6, 2006

Hi BlocDoc - yes you did answer my question nicely too, I might add. May I ask what level of education you had in nursing prior to going to PA school? Did it provide you with a masters degree? Thanks.

Sorry so long to respond- Life calls!

I was an ADN when I went into PA school- (10 years experience) I had many certifications but just the ADN. I received a BS in Physician Assistant Studies and there was no Masters program (1994) for a few years yet.

I hope all of you will find this information helpful direct from the AAPA web site- http://www.aapa.org/glance.html This information is with respect to existing PA programs, entrance requirements and other important information.

PA's do NOT make more than NP's as a rule. What we make is simply the result of scope of priviliges, geographic demand, competence and what the practice is willing to pay- I think you will find that an NP would be paid based upon these same criteria. As such a PA can't make more just because they are a PA. It is ALL about what you can bring to the table and the degree will simply get you through the door.

In short, it is not what you ARE but what you DO (ability to generate revenue) that will ultimately determine your rate of pay. Knowledge exists without repect to what letters are after your name.

aspentree13 · Feb 6, 2006

Please note that a physican assistant program is a master's level program. This is across the board. There are no longer any BS programs graduating PAs.
The program your community college is touting is NOT a physician assistant program, but sounds a PHYSICIAN'S ASSISTANT program - a medical technologist.
The two programs are not identical.
I struggled with the PA/NP dilemma for a few months before choosing nursing, so I'm familar with PA requirements and that too-close and confusing terminology.
To the OP - programs vary as to requirements, even in the same state. Here in NC there are three programs; one requires 1000 hours of "direct patient contact" and does not count volunteer experience within that context, one recommends prior experience but approves of extensive and intensive volunteer time, and the third claims to have no preference (though I doubt that's the case).
Good luck in your decision; I'm sure you'll do well no matter what path you choose.

I meant to say that the community college does offer a masters degree in addition to the PA training. What is the difference your refering to between the two colleges, when it comes to real life?

Thank you

BlocDoc · Feb 6, 2006

I meant to say that the community college does offer a masters degree in addition to the PA training. What is the difference your refering to between the two colleges, when it comes to real life?
Thank you

I would certainly wait for aspentree13's response but I would venture this.

I don't know what that particular college is actually offering- The sticking point was whether or not it was a true Physician Assistant program as that would make a HUGE difference in "real life"

- You may be aware that in many physician's offices, a medical or nursing assistant can be referred to as the "Doctor's Assistant" or even the "Physician's Assistant" which of course is an important, but nonetheless, tech level position.

As a corollary there are some RN's who have an issue with the fact that whether you were a CNA, an LPN, an RN or a BSN, they were all called a "Nurse". I am not here to try to stir that pot but rather draw some distinction between educational levels pooled together under the same nomenclature. I hope you would agree that it CAN make things a little sticky.

I think that aspentree13 was speaking about something along this line but I could be wrong!

Having said that, we will await the reply!

hrtprncss · Feb 6, 2006

Please note that a physican assistant program is a master's level program. This is across the board. There are no longer any BS programs graduating PAs.
The program your community college is touting is NOT a physician assistant program, but sounds a PHYSICIAN'S ASSISTANT program - a medical technologist.
The two programs are not identical.
I struggled with the PA/NP dilemma for a few months before choosing nursing, so I'm familar with PA requirements and that too-close and confusing terminology.
To the OP - programs vary as to requirements, even in the same state. Here in NC there are three programs; one requires 1000 hours of "direct patient contact" and does not count volunteer experience within that context, one recommends prior experience but approves of extensive and intensive volunteer time, and the third claims to have no preference (though I doubt that's the case).
Good luck in your decision; I'm sure you'll do well no matter what path you choose.

I think the poster was referring to this program, in a CC...not requiring a Bachelor's degree to get in....But there's also an OPTION to get a master's degree thru affiliation with a different school...but I'm not sure if it's an option or required by that school...It says that after 24 months, they're eligible to take the PANCE...Now my question is, are they going to be granted a Bachelor's if they DO NOT opt to take the PA route with the Master's degree...would that be possible from a CC...or would it be a certificate...I don't think the program is defunct because they're still accepting applications...that's not to say that just because it's the minimum requirements to get in the program that you'd get in...I'm sure it's highly competitive and if you want to have a good chance on getting in, then a Bachelor's degree would make your application look better, BUT is not required. So this program is nationally accredited then I'm sure if their graduates are eligible to take the PANCE. http://www.rrcc.edu/pa/index.html

EDIT: Edited for content

liteskin_qtee · Feb 7, 2006

The school I attend offers an PA program which is a bachlers degree. Its 4+ years with pre reqs. So maybe not all the BS programs are phased out.

Aaron-RN · Feb 7, 2006

Hi Everyone-

I have been reading this thread and some posters have indicated that all PA programs now offer Master's Degrees not Bachelors Degrees. However, this is not 100% correct. I live in Maryland and a local University- University of Maryland Eastern Shore, has a comprehensive PA program. The degree granted is a Bachelor's degree in Physician Assistant Studies, which takes 4 years to complete. Here is a link to University's website to verify the information - http://www.umes.edu/pa/ .

Arbys1595

berniemcr · Feb 7, 2006

I am not sure if this still applies, but my son is a PA in orthopedic surgery and has been for about 8 years. He priviously had a BA in Psych and took a few more courses to get a BS (which he actually didn't need). As a PA he was trained in all areas (like an RN--I graduated in 12/5) and is licensed to work in any/all specialties. He had stated at the time that if he had known this is what he wanted to do, he could have done it in 4 years.

He has made a good living at it, but has stated that the hospitals (at least in NJ) are attempting to phase out the PA as a hospital employee and make them an employee of the group they work for--thereby assigning the salary to the group. It's all about money isn't it.

I hadn't heard about the Masters, so things may have changed. Funny--as a Masters he got an MBA and then the stock market/pharmacuticals started to crash. Oh well, an education is never wasted. When I see him, I will try to ask what he knows with the new hires and the Masters, but with my NCLEX coming up on 2/8, there isn't much mind left to remember things.

marilynmom, LPN, NP · Feb 7, 2006

I would definatly research the area you live in to find out what the employment conditions are. I had been plenning all along to go the NP route until I found out here where I live PA's FAR outnumber NP's.

I didn't read through all these threads so sorry if this has already been said. I just think it's a good idea to realllllly research whatever paths you are interested in before taking the plunge. I think RN/NP/PA are all great paths! It just depends on your interests, the time you want to put in, etc

And I agree, I am not going to school and racking up thousands of dollars in student loan debt to not make at least decent money. I DO want a job where I can provide well for my children and my family, I don't see what is wrong with that one bit. I've been poor for too long to know that is no way to live

Anyways, good luck with your decision.

ECMOismygame · Feb 7, 2006

Hi Everyone-
I have been reading this thread and some posters have indicated that all PA programs now offer Master's Degrees not Bachelors Degrees. However, this is not 100% correct. I live in Maryland and a local University- University of Maryland Eastern Shore, has a comprehensive PA program. The degree granted is a Bachelor's degree in Physician Assistant Studies, which takes 4 years to complete. Here is a link to University's website to verify the information - http://www.umes.edu/pa/ .
Arbys1595

true. a Masters degree is not the only option. there are dozens of schools that offer certificates, AS degrees, and BS degrees. like the RN, the PA-C is a license and not a degree. so it doesnt matter what letters go after your PA-C as long as you have your PA-C.

RN, Diploma ------------take NCLEX

RN, ADN ---------------take NCLEX

RN, BSN ---------------take NCLEX

RN, MSN (entry level) --take NCLEX

PA-C, Certificate ------take PANCE

PA-C, BS -------------take PANCE

PA-C, MS -------------take PANCE

some states require a masters to practice or write Rx's. but this is not nationwide and only a few states have these requirements.

a standard MS for PA's will take a long time to establish b/c many people come to the field from different walks of life. (college grads w/ BS and stellar GPA, but no experience and Medics/RNs/RTs with AS good GPAs and excellent experience)

a similar debate is whether entry RN's should all be BSN prepared, and it wont happen for a while, same for PAs.