RN Disciplined While Waiting On Covid 19 Result

Guest219794 · Mar 31, 2020

42 minutes ago, Wuzzie said:
They are legally required to allow the employee to use their sick time first (without an occurrence) before requiring them to use vacation or any other type of leave. They are not required to pay the employee out of an "administrative leave" type bank. I'm not sure why people keep saying to get a lawyer for this unless they are conflating working without PPE into this situation which, if my memory serves, was not part of the original post.

A couple of thoughts-

Even with use of PPE, it is very much possible for a nurse to become infected. We are in close contact with asymptomatic carriers. For starters, some nurse reading this post right now is a carrier, but feels just fine.

Sick time is something a person earns. Like money in a bank. Some have savings, some don't. Some may have already spend this asset, some have yet to earn it. Regardless, it is asset earned by the employee. Requiring a nurse to use his or her assets in the event of Covid illness is just wrong.

Right now, my life is based around work, and staying healthy enough to keep working. In an environment with inadequate PPE. I wore the same surgical mask over 12 hours the other day. The thing actually degrades to the point that you breathe in small particles of mask.

My employer chooses to leave me to fend for myself if I get sick. They will treat Covid like an appy or MVC. This is, plain and simple, wrong.

WInurse · Mar 31, 2020

I had to get tested yesterday as I developed symptoms on Sat. So I am waiting and even if the test comes back negative I have to stay out 7 days. Burning up my earned PTO feeling like crap. Yes, it is wrong. I will submit in another post what I wrote to my state representatives, senator, governor and the president of US. I just tweaked it. Feel free to write and tweak it some more. We should not have to use our earned assets to stay home fighting this illness in ourselves or while waiting for testing results to protect the public and our patients. It is wrong.

Dear Representatives:

I appreciate all the efforts to help America with the COVID -19 crisis. I am a Registered Nurse in the state of Wisconsin and a Wisconsin resident. I was excited to read about the new guidelines in the Families First Coronavirus Response Act (FFCRA) taking effect April 1, 2020.

I am though disheartened to read that health care providers and first responders could be excluded in this bill. Also, most hospitals are owned by large corporations and are excluded because they have over 500 employees.

While it provides assistance to just about everyone else, it misses the people working hard on the front lines. Someone employed by a company less than 500 employees can use unemployment and/or the FMLA act to have their jobs protected and income replaced to care for their children while schools are closed. Why can’t assist our health care providers if they become ill from the virus? We are expected to either take time off without pay and risk losing our jobs when we return. Or, we can use all our PTO and borrow up to 80 hours. Then, after this epidemic we have no vacation or sick time.

We are at a greater risk of catching the virus, and if we become ill, we may not have coverage to retain our jobs and replace our income. We are fighting and caring for others; yet there is nothing to assist us. Some of us do not qualify for the FMLA due to not being in our current position for more than a year, or not working the required hours the previous year. Yet healthy people can get assistance because they stay home to care for their own children. Where are the priorities?

I encourage you to stand up and fight for health care workers to get FMLA protection and income replacement if we become ill or have to care for a loved one with the virus. This assistance should be retroactive to the start of the epidemic as there are health care workers with the virus and little or no assistance. If we cannot do this on a federal level, let’s do this on a state level.

Please fight for the health care workers and first responders just like you have for all other Americans. I, and my colleagues thank you in advance for your consideration and assistance.

Sincerely,

Wuzzie · Mar 31, 2020

@stasiam28 the act covers nurses. You need to clarify what "providers" you are referring to.

WInurse · Mar 31, 2020

From what I understand it covers nurses in that we cannot be disclipined if we use FMLA, IF we even Qualify under the regular FMLA. Some of us don’t qualify. Plus we should not have to use our earned vacation time while we wait for COVID results or are out sick.

If you know something that I am missing, can you please show me the writing on it?

WInurse · Mar 31, 2020

Wuzzie, are you a nurse working or a nurse working in administration/management or an employment attorney? Your posts seem to be on the side of the administration and corporation and not in the plight of the nurses actually doing the job and the ones who are scared and just want proper equal treatment. We cannot work from home and get paid like administration can. Or even fudge that we are working...

Wuzzie · Mar 31, 2020

18 minutes ago, stasiam28 said:
Your posts seem to be on the side of the administration and corporation and not in the plight of the nurses actually doing the job and the ones who are scared and just want proper equal treatment. We cannot work from home and get paid like administration can. Or even fudge that we are working...

That is the biggest bunch of BS I've ever heard! If you want to know what I do just read the bulk of my posts. Have fun with that. I've been a member for 12 years. For the record I am not on the side of administration but I also do not support people giving horrible advice or spreading false information like you continue to do.

And FTR my co-nurse who works closely with me on my oncology team is currently barely hanging on after being infected with this bastard of a virus and I have been exposed three times already because we don't have full PPE so you can just take your judgement of me and stick it you know where.

WInurse · Mar 31, 2020

I am sorry Wuzzy if I offended you. I don’t think I am spreading false information, I have looked up the information. Others have posted that they have to use PTO or sick time if out for COVID 19 reasons and we don’t think this is fair. How is that spreading false information? The new FMLA expansion excludes nurses. I even read that on another post by another member. How are we getting all this information wrong then?

I am sorry you have been exposed and I hope your coworker pulls through fine. We all also understand the lack of full PPE as we are living it also.Either the PPE isn’t there or it is being “conserved” for later.

Sorry if I offended you but from what I read that was my thoughts. Sorry

Wuzzie · Mar 31, 2020

7 minutes ago, stasiam28 said:
The new FMLA expansion excludes nurses. I even read that on another post by another member. How are we getting all this information wrong then?

Because you aren't even looking at the right part of the act. There is a difference between FMLA and sick time. FMLA only protects a person's job for a period of time. It is not a form of payment. You don't get "paid" FMLA. When you use FMLA you have to use accrued sick time and then disability to be paid which is the issue the OP is speaking about. In addition, FMLA can legally be denied by your employer. In the middle of a pandemic any employer who does this is morally bankrupt as far as I'm concerned and that may be worth suing for. Furthermore the "providers" that are excluded are NP's, CNM's and PA's not nurses. Not saying that's acceptable but if you're going to send a letter to a government official and want to be taken seriously you need to have your facts straight.

And had you read anything I wrote correctly I never said anything about whether I thought using sick time was right or wrong. What I said is what they are doing is not illegal so telling somebody that they should hire an attorney is really bad advice.

Yemysey · Mar 31, 2020

Hmmm this is sad. I will advice to return to work when you are cleared. The company you work don’t really care about your wellbeing. They will use and dump you when the need arise. So start looking for a better place to work. If you test positive I won’t be surprise if they terminate your appointment with flimsy excuses. This is an eye opener, there are better hospitals out there.

cazzyprenurse, CNA · Mar 31, 2020

On 3/27/2020 at 8:44 PM, INDY RN said:
I am an RN working full time in the ED. Every shift I am subjected to below par PPE standards. Asked to re-use N95 and surgical masks for multiple patients, covid or not. So it was not to my surprise when I got a call informing me a patient I had provided care for later had a positive covid 19 test. I was informed to contact our employee health if I developed symptoms. A few days later I had a cough, sore throat, HA, fatigue and sneezing. I contacted my employee health as instructed, a test was ordered, I was instructed to remain at home til I received my results. Unfortunately I am still waiting......
My issue with the situation is that my employer has already let me know the repercussions of a negative test, should that be my result.
I will receive an occurrence for missing my shift while awaiting test results. (The quantine was orderd by employee health)
I will have to use my accrued PTO to cover any hours missed while in quantine awaiting my test results.
I will also have the weekend shifts I miss counted against me while in quantine awaiting results. Meaning I can have less weekend shifts off for the remainder of the year.
As an employee I have always helped when it comes to providing for our adopted Christmas family or the food drives. As an ED nurse I am in the frontline of this pandemic, caring for those in need, risking my own health for lack of PPE. This has been extremely difficult for me to understand how the hospital I work for can treat me this way as I await my results.
The community has been amazing and supportive of our ED staff. They have given snacks, meals, encouragement and thanks this entire time. However, the hospital I work for can't do the same. It is shameful to work for such an organization.
Is this OK? Is this fair?

Doesn’t an “occurrence” occur any time you call out sick for any reason? Wouldn’t it be the same if you tested positive? Seems odd that the policy would be different.

The PTO thing does seem odd as well unless your sick time is combined with your vacation or PTO time. If it’s a different bank from your vacation time, that seems like a strange policy. But maybe there’s a stipulation in your contract that says you can use PTO as sick days. At our hospital, we are to use our sick time for Covid19 testing/illnesses and if we run out, we are covered by an additional 14 days of sick time.

I’m not sure about the weekend issue.

Unless I’m missing something, it doesn’t sound like you’re being “disciplined,” it just sounds like they’re following some, albeit ***, existing policies for sick time that probably need to be reconsidered/waived during the Covid-19 crisis.

What I would do first is get these policies clearly outlined in writing. Be nice about it. Send an email saying “I just want to confirm these policies in writing to make sure I’m doing everything right... 1. 2. 3. Etc... This is such a stressful and confusing time with things changing every day, so I want to make sure I’m doing it correctly! Can’t wait to feel better and get back to work!” Make sure to CC employee health and any other relevant manager, payroll, etc.

Once you confirm the policies in writing (it’s possible they will reconsider and just fix it right then if they have to), you should very clearly and in writing request accommodation (requesting leave with pay, or whatever is available to covid-19 testing health care workers). Look up how to do that on your HR website and send a nice question about it to your HR rep. Just tell them you’re confused and would like clarification.

If all else fails, yes you should go to your union and ask them how to deal with it. It’s an evolving situation and people don’t really seem to know how to deal with consistently yet. If you force them to put it in writing and force them to have discussions with other departments about it, they will consider it more thoroughly and come up with a better solution.

You can be nice throughout this process since everyone is stressed just like you are, but just stick up for yourself and ask the questions you want answers to. If they’re really bad answers, that’s when you can get confrontational if need be.

greener22, BSN, MSN, RN · Apr 1, 2020

On 3/27/2020 at 10:44 PM, INDY RN said:
I am an RN working full time in the ED. Every shift I am subjected to below par PPE standards. Asked to re-use N95 and surgical masks for multiple patients, covid or not. So it was not to my surprise when I got a call informing me a patient I had provided care for later had a positive covid 19 test. I was informed to contact our employee health if I developed symptoms. A few days later I had a cough, sore throat, HA, fatigue and sneezing. I contacted my employee health as instructed, a test was ordered, I was instructed to remain at home til I received my results. Unfortunately I am still waiting......
My issue with the situation is that my employer has already let me know the repercussions of a negative test, should that be my result.
I will receive an occurrence for missing my shift while awaiting test results. (The quantine was orderd by employee health)
I will have to use my accrued PTO to cover any hours missed while in quantine awaiting my test results.
I will also have the weekend shifts I miss counted against me while in quantine awaiting results. Meaning I can have less weekend shifts off for the remainder of the year.
As an employee I have always helped when it comes to providing for our adopted Christmas family or the food drives. As an ED nurse I am in the frontline of this pandemic, caring for those in need, risking my own health for lack of PPE. This has been extremely difficult for me to understand how the hospital I work for can treat me this way as I await my results.
The community has been amazing and supportive of our ED staff. They have given snacks, meals, encouragement and thanks this entire time. However, the hospital I work for can't do the same. It is shameful to work for such an organization.
Is this OK? Is this fair?

Not OK. Not fair. And I bet not legal! Gather whatever written documentation you have and find a lawyer. Check your HR policy on
missing work due to being told to stay home by employee health. Then find another job.

Heather Sheley, ADN · Apr 1, 2020

https://www.ofm.wa.gov/state-human-resources/coronavirus-covid-19-hr-guidance-state-agencies/2020-federal-covid-19-leave-laws-and-how-they-apply-state-employees

Although from Washington state, this is a new FEDERAL policy I believe going into effect April 1, 2020. So hospital's will have to buck up and quit screwing their staff over.