Reputation of online APN programs

chagermany · Mar 18, 2011

I am currently in a ground class that is meeting once a week and we also do online course work. The work is by no means less than any solo online class work which I have done as well. As a matter of fact I find it twice as much work and still have to go to my class every week. Have I learned any more in the ground class compared to online? Absolutely not!!! Just more time consuming and just as much busy work as online alone!!!

Dr. Tammy, FNP/GNP-C · Mar 19, 2011

Not too long ago, distance education programs were held with the same contempt that now many hold for the DNP degree. These were mostly nurses who could not understand any mechanism other than classroom-based education as a means of education. As with anything new, there will always be those narrow minded individuals who resist change and progress with every breath.

Presently, however, even the most die hard knuckle-walking laggards to change and progression are now starting to understand the reality that there are other ways in which one can learn and gain competencies besides sitting on wooden seats in a classroom with someone in front of a chalk board.

On a personal note, I think I may be one of the few individuals to complete an ASN/BSN/MSN/FNP/DNP degrees--all through online and distance education and I have never had a problem getting a gig. I presently teach for two nursing schools, have a thriving partnership practice and represent senior nursing leadership in our state defense forces. Not once, except for certain individuals on this site, has anyone questioned the validity of the training or education I received through distance.

Le-Lee_FNP, MSN, RN, NP · Mar 19, 2011

I am currently a FNP student. My school does both brick and mortar as well as online. I chose the online option. I actually think it is harder and more time consuming because you have to teach yourself. I don't see why anyone would feel that you can't learn the same material online that you can learn in a classroom. We take the same tests, have to write the same papers, and have to master the same content that the students who are sitting in the classroom do. So it's common sense. Everyone learns differently. It all boils down to if you can pass your certifaction exam once you graduate. And if people that went to online schools weren't passing their boards, then I don't think so many online programs would be offered.

With the way technology is headed, I wouldn't be surprised if online education became the dominant method of teaching. And not just in nursing, i mean in all fields of education. Oviously clinical rotations would still need to be in person, but theory can be taught online just as effectively as in person.

chagermany · Mar 19, 2011

I agree 100% with all you online people. In a world where we have to work FT and can not go to to school twice a week it is just as good to get the online ed. It is not like you get any more or less clinical hours, hands on trainining in either one!! Online shows you can actually get it done on your own. I switched from ground to online now. How is Indiana State or Southern Indiana for the MSN? Thanks and Kudos! Caroline

linearthinker, DNP, RN · Mar 19, 2011

Student FNP -If I had to teach myself, I'd choose another online program. That is not how it is supposed to be. It is a different style of teaching/learning, but they should NOT be abdicating both to the student. I agree that online education is going to become dominant. The high schools here are pushing it, and even middle schools are offering half the day online. All of the area Universities offer campus, online and hybrid programs. It is the way of the future. Some of us are just ahead of our time.

Le-Lee_FNP, MSN, RN, NP · Mar 20, 2011

Student FNP -If I had to teach myself, I'd choose another online program. That is not how it is supposed to be. It is a different style of teaching/learning, but they should NOT be abdicating both to the student. I agree that online education is going to become dominant. The high schools here are pushing it, and even middle schools are offering half the day online. All of the area Universities offer campus, online and hybrid programs. It is the way of the future. Some of us are just ahead of our time.

When I said you have to teach yourself I didn't mean we aren't given the materials to learn the objectives. I just meant it is up to us to organize everything and structure how we learn the material. In a brick and mortar school you have lectures and have the ability to interact with the instructor and other students, ask questions, see demonstrations, etc. In my program all of the lectures are provided through notes and powerpoint. so if I don't understand something or I misinterpret something, it's up to me to figure it out. sure i could e-mail my instructor with questions or post things for other students on our discussion boards, but it is just not the same.

I think it is more time consuming having to organize all of the notes and figuring out how to approach mastering the material. We aren't given any little hints or clues on what's most important or what to focus on like I remember getting in nursing school with real lectures. Also during real lectures I remember the instructors giving personal examples or telling stories to help demonstrate what they were teaching. we don't get any of that online. sometimes it is hard to think of clinical examples if you have never seen or heard of something. I often find myself searching on the web trying to figure out if I am understanding certain concepts correctly.

I do often feel as though I could use more assistance or that I am totally in this alone being an online student. However I just think it requires me to be more diligent, dedicated, and organized.

linearthinker, DNP, RN · Mar 20, 2011

See, I find that unacceptable. My online coursework was almost always synchronized. I watched a live lecture as it was happening and with headset and camera, interacted with professors and on the ground students in real time. Attendance was required and w/ the webinar software they could easily see if I left after "signing in" electronically-because they had a screen at the podium with all the distance people linked in. If, with permission in advance, we missed a lecture, it was available (to everyone, not just distance students) for review online later, but it wasn't a substitute for participation. We also had lively and scholarly online discussion groups that would have been impossible to participate in without having done the research. All of my exams had to be proctored. I had to pay $15 to take the exam under tight security conditions (photo ID, nothing with me but a pencil and blank scratch paper, observed by a faculty member), lol, at my local (unaffiliated) university and my school reimbursed me if I sent them the receipts. We had group projects and making sure I got my fair share of the work done by distance was my responsibility to work out with my peers, some of whom would work together in person on campus, etc. In short, they used technology to it's fullest potential to include distance students in every way, but the expectations for us were identical to those of the campus students. In return they met their obligations to us. your school's approach sounds really subpar. I'd be angry about paying for powerpoints and prerecorded lectures. Good for you for doing it on your own, but you shouldn't have to. I wonder how a program like that even got accredited.

prairienp · Mar 20, 2011

see, i find that unacceptable. my online coursework was almost always synchronized. i watched a live lecture as it was happening and with headset and camera, interacted with professors and on the ground students in real time. attendance was required and w/ the webinar software they could easily see if i left after "signing in" electronically-because they had a screen at the podium with all the distance people linked in. if, with permission in advance, we missed a lecture, it was available (to everyone, not just distance students) for review online later, but it wasn't a substitute for participation. we also had lively and scholarly online discussion groups that would have been impossible to participate in without having done the research. all of my exams had to be proctored. i had to pay $15 to take the exam under tight security conditions (photo id, nothing with me but a pencil and blank scratch paper, observed by a faculty member), lol, at my local (unaffiliated) university and my school reimbursed me if i sent them the receipts. we had group projects and making sure i got my fair share of the work done by distance was my responsibility to work out with my peers, some of whom would work together in person on campus, etc. in short, they used technology to it's fullest potential to include distance students in every way, but the expectations for us were identical to those of the campus students. in return they met their obligations to us. your school's approach sounds really subpar. i'd be angry about paying for powerpoints and prerecorded lectures. good for you for doing it on your own, but you shouldn't have to. i wonder how a program like that even got accredited.

linearthinker, thanks for addressing the issues that i feel are of most concern when discussing online programs. the program you are discussing is doing things the right way. i suspect, (don't know) that the vast majority of online programs do not have the expectations for class and test taking exhibited by your program.

at a recent conference a big 10 school presented their findings in a np pharmacology course between students who took online and in class. at first the outcomes were quite similar on the exams, and they were using the same content and exams for both groups. when they went to proctored exams they reported the f2f students had better scores and took less time to complete exams. although the presenters didn't say the obvious, it appeared to me that the rationale was online students didn't do as well with proctored exams because they no longer had access to additional resources during the exam.

if the np online model was to follow linearthinker np program methodology we would not be criticized so vehemently by our pa and md colleagues. i am personally tired of trying to defend how a new rn can work full time, attend np graduate school full time, and have a family. i hear how pas are in school 30-40 a week, not working and yet we want to be on the same level. do we really want to be known as the healthcare professional who received their degree in their spare time and in their pajamas?

Vavavictoria · Mar 21, 2011

Thanks everyone for all these great responses. You are all definitely giving me something to think about.

zenman · Mar 22, 2011

do we really want to be known as the healthcare professional who received their degree in their spare time and in their pajamas?

after reading research on distance education, the answer is"yes!"

i was not only half-dressed most of the time, but was in another country. :yeah:

Annaiya, NP · Mar 22, 2011

A school can be good or bad based on the school and the instructors, just because a program is online does not mean it is bad. My program also has video taped lectures to watch, and I'll take that over an in-person lecture any day. It was SO nice during the pharmacology lectures that I could pause the video to finish writing my notes, rewind if I noticed my mind wandering, etc. I got way more out of those lectures than if I just sat in a class for 3 hours. My isn't possible to concentrate every second of a 3 hour lecture. Being able to take breaks when you need them and not on the instructor's schedule is a huge benefit to the learner, imo.

As for the debate of open book vs. proctored exams, I don't see a problem with open book exams that have very strict time constraints. There is research that shows that a great deal of learning goes one while taking an exam (and the content is remembered), so if you are frantically trying to page through a book to look up that one question you don't remember, you will likely remember that answer for the rest of your life, lol. If the implication with non-proctored exams is that people are cheating, that seems ridiculous. You have to learn the content to pass the licensing exams, and there is a reason that nursing is the most trusted profession.

linearthinker, DNP, RN · Mar 23, 2011

Even though I was on camera for a live webinar, I was in my pjs plenty of times. I might even have been naked from the waist down so far as any anyone knew I don't think that many NP students w/o proctored exams are cheating, for one thing there would be little point since you still have to sit for boards. However, I do think it is important that NP education be completely transparent so that no one could even make such an accusation. Mostly though, I just liked how connected I have been to my peers. We interact daily via skype, webinars, and IMing. I feel like I have had the best of both worlds.