NY State may require nurses to obtain 4-year degrees

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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But some worry that an already severe shortage will become worse.

New York is mulling over a requirement that would force all RNs to earn a bachelor's degree in order to keep their RN certification-a step that critics worry could serve as a body blow to a profession already facing a severe shortage.

Under the state Board of Nursing proposal, RNs with associate's degrees would have to earn bachelor's degrees within 10 years, or their RN certifications would be downgraded to that of licensed practical nurse. That would make nursing somewhat like teaching in New York state; certified K-12 teachers need master's degrees or must obtain one within three years of starting a job. It would also add years and thousands of dollars to the difficulty of becoming an RN...

Full Article: http://www.rochesterdandc.com/news/0413BA3TIOG_news.shtml

To receive the respect we deserve, we need to develop a more educated work force. Are you aware entry level for an animal care technician is an associate's degree plus 20 continuing education credits in a 2-year licensure period? We require our educators, engineers, and accountants to have a minimum of a baccalaureate education and our nurses are on the same educational level as animal care technicians! :o This does not seem right to me.

:angryfire A state should not be determining entry-level education or a curriculum for any profession! I believe members of a profession should be addressing the profession's educational curriculum and entry-level education. :idea: If you really want to block change or make change, get involved with your state or local chapter of the American Nurses Association.

To receive the respect we deserve, we need to develop a more educated work force. Are you aware entry level for an animal care technician is an associate's degree plus 20 continuing education credits in a 2-year licensure period? We require our educators, engineers, and accountants to have a minimum of a baccalaureate education and our nurses are on the same educational level as animal care technicians! :o This does not seem right to me.

:angryfire A state should not be determining entry-level education or a curriculum for any profession! I believe members of a profession should be addressing the profession's educational curriculum and entry-level education. :idea: If you really want to block change or make change, get involved with your state or local chapter of the American Nurses Association.

The ANA is the last place I would look for guidance in anything having to do with nursing. The very fact that their membership is made up of only 5-7% of working nurses should tell you that the population of nurses does not feel they are represented by the ANA. Anytime an organization claims they represent a profession, they should claim more members within the population of workers than does the ANA. There's a definate problem here but the ANA is not the answer. Sorry, my opinion, and I guess the opinion of 93-95% of the working nurses must agree.

To receive the respect we deserve, we need to develop a more educated work force. Are you aware entry level for an animal care technician is an associate's degree plus 20 continuing education credits in a 2-year licensure period? We require our educators, engineers, and accountants to have a minimum of a baccalaureate education and our nurses are on the same educational level as animal care technicians! :o This does not seem right to me.

Uh ... my brother is an accountant. Handles the books for a multi-million dollar corporation. He doesn't even have his CPA.

As far as respect, nurses just scored highest (as usual) in the annual Gallup poll measuring the public's perception of various professions. And nurses have scored high for several years. I believe the only profession that rated higher than nurses in recent years were firefighters during the post 9-11 tragedy. But, just this year, nurses were number one, once again.

Generally, I agree that more education is better. But what KIND of education are we talking about here? You really think an ADN is the equivalent of some associate's degree in animal care? For crying out loud. It's not even close.

I'd like to know how many animal care technicians could make it through an ADN program. Hell, I'd like to see how many of them could even make it through pre-reqs. :chuckle

Talk about comparing apples and oranges. Once again, it's not always about titles. It's a little more complicated than that.

:lol2:

Uh ... my brother is an accountant. Handles the books for a multi-million dollar corporation. He doesn't even have his CPA.

As far as respect, nurses just scored highest (as usual) in the annual Gallup poll measuring the public's perception of various professions. And nurses have scored high for several years. I believe the only profession that rated higher than nurses in recent years were firefighters during the post 9-11 tragedy. But, just this year, nurses were number one, once again.

Generally, I agree that more education is better. But what KIND of education are we talking about here? You really think an ADN is the equivalent of some associate's degree in animal care? For crying out loud. It's not even close.

I'd like to know how many animal care technicians could make it through an ADN program. Hell, I'd like to see how many of them could even make it through pre-reqs. :chuckle

Talk about comparing apples and oranges. Once again, it's not always about titles. It's a little more complicated than that.

:lol2:

Gosh, I couldn't have said it better Liz.

There is no doubt registered nurses need continued education, and we all know those who wish to never pick up a book ,unless its a romance novel,gain.This is deadly! Now, here goes my neighbor New York. I see where your coming from, but you have to make it easy.It would first have to be free,and it would have to be on site classrooms(hospitals),and it would have to allow for some time off for test studies.Why must it be easy?Because we as a society need nurses ,they are the true healers in the healthcare field.My hats off to all those who obtained dergees with families and jobs.You are a special group! peace! sandy

:rotfl:

But some worry that an already severe shortage will become worse.

New York is mulling over a requirement that would force all RNs to earn a bachelor's degree in order to keep their RN certification-a step that critics worry could serve as a body blow to a profession already facing a severe shortage.

Under the state Board of Nursing proposal, RNs with associate's degrees would have to earn bachelor's degrees within 10 years, or their RN certifications would be downgraded to that of licensed practical nurse. That would make nursing somewhat like teaching in New York state; certified K-12 teachers need master's degrees or must obtain one within three years of starting a job. It would also add years and thousands of dollars to the difficulty of becoming an RN...

Full Article: http://www.rochesterdandc.com/news/0413BA3TIOG_news.shtml

As a BSN student I take offense at that. There are no "management" classes in our curriculum. We do clinical rotations in Peds, OB, Psych, Adult Health, Community Health, and our senior practicum.

I am in a BSN completion program and guess what my first two classes were management. My next two are leadership and management!!!

Hi everyone, i'm a first time user here and I'd just like to give my opinion on this. I know this is a common misconception among a lot of individuals, and it really at times, gets on my nerves. We have one management class yes, but we also have a lot more clinical time required than other nursing degrees. Right now, I'm in my last semester and I have 24-32 hours of clinical a week and they have ranged from critical care to going along and doing medical assessments on CPS cases. A good BSN program is NOT lacking in hands on. We actually have more clinical hours than other programs. I'm not at all trying to put down people who have worked hard for their degree, but two more years is nothing to sneeze at. It is hard work. Glad to be here!:)

Good for your school but, one of the top 3 nursing schools in the country is lacking in clinical rotations compared to the ADN program that is down the street from it. So your school is rare!!

Yes, but the study they cite in the article concerned BSNs. I read it. Isn't that the reason for this requirement?

It seems contradictory, to say the least, to allow some other bachelor's degree, when the primary justification is a study based on BSNs.

Not to mention, the whole argument has always been about ADN versus BSN, not ADN and some other bachelor's degree.

:smokin:

I think you are, like many bsn advocates, missing my point; take a bsn and compare it to, say, a BS, or BSW. Now take away the nursing courses in the bsn, and take away the sociology courses in the BSW, and what do you have left?...the same 2 years worth of requirements...the english, the math, the social sciences, the foreign language, the sciences, ad nauseum. Now lets put these 2 degrees back together again, and you have bsn (nurse) and a BSW (Social Work). Now the BSW adds an ASN to be a nurse, and now lets compare the two...a bsn who has 2 years of nursing (like the ASN) and 2 years of pre=reqs (like the BSW), AND, the BSW has one more advantage....he has a second major in Social Work. SO, if there is any difference, the BSW with a ASN is infinitely more broadly prepared than a straight bsn. So why not any bachelors? As I stated earlier, any bachelors + an RN license is all that's needed to get into a graduate nursing program. So the requirement for nurses to ultimately get a baccalaureate is not a bad thing...what is bad is to think that only a bsn qualifies as baccalaureate degree, and that all other education, whether it be a BA, BS, MA, MS, PhD, etc, if not in nursing, is not valid, therefore disqualifying an RN for continued licensure. Who makes up these stupid rules, you ask? STUPID NURSES...that's who...you know what I say about who your enemy is...... :rolleyes:

Specializes in ER, ICU, L&D, OR.

Keep your friends close to you

keep you enemies even closer

I think you are, like many bsn advocates, missing my point; take a bsn and compare it to, say, a BS, or BSW. Now take away the nursing courses in the bsn, and take away the sociology courses in the BSW, and what do you have left?...the same 2 years worth of requirements...the english, the math, the social sciences, the foreign language, the sciences, ad nauseum. Now lets put these 2 degrees back together again, and you have bsn (nurse) and a BSW (Social Work). Now the BSW adds an ASN to be a nurse, and now lets compare the two...a bsn who has 2 years of nursing (like the ASN) and 2 years of pre=reqs (like the BSW), AND, the BSW has one more advantage....he has a second major in Social Work. SO, if there is any difference, the BSW with a ASN is infinitely more broadly prepared than a straight bsn. So why not any bachelors? As I stated earlier, any bachelors + an RN license is all that's needed to get into a graduate nursing program. So the requirement for nurses to ultimately get a baccalaureate is not a bad thing...what is bad is to think that only a bsn qualifies as baccalaureate degree, and that all other education, whether it be a BA, BS, MA, MS, PhD, etc, if not in nursing, is not valid, therefore disqualifying an RN for continued licensure. Who makes up these stupid rules, you ask? STUPID NURSES...that's who...you know what I say about who your enemy is...... :rolleyes:

Alnamvet: Explained beautifully. This would make perfect sense to anyone outside of nursing but folks such as the ANA are left scratching their heads in confusion because for all the critical thinking skills they espouse in the profession of nursing, they themselves are unable to get it.

I really don't see how taking a few more liberal art classes better prepares you for Nursing. Many of the student who went to school with me ( a two year program)

also had 4 yr degrees in another field. Many were single mothers who were balancing

school with work and raising a family alone. These women have already demonstrated

their problem solving skills as evidenced by their ability to juggle so many roles sucessfully. I work in New York my facility is always short staffed I'm asked routinely to come in early of work my day off.

By the time most students have graduated from high school they have a good liberal arts background. I think courses in Physical therapy,speech pathology and Respiratory

theraphy would be more beneficial. If a nurse is planning to go the administrative road

classes in accounting or business administration would be beneficial.

If you are going to require me to have a 4 yr degree. I weant to take classes more relevant to nursing. I've been a hospital Nurse for 15 years I really don't see how more liberal arts classes would better prepare me to be a Nurse.

Wait a minute, you think having a bachelors degree means you will be treated like a professional? How many people with those degrees are working at your local restaurants as waiters, how many are working as lawn and garden caretakers. Well all I know is that when I am wiping someones soiled behind I dont feel like a professional behind wiper; when I am pushing a stretcher I dont feel like much of a professional; when I am being screamed at by over-privileged brats and yuppie suburbanites because they want to be seen now!!! for a hangnail?! in an overcrowded ER - I dont want to be a professional - I want to tell them to sit down, shut up and wait your turn you ******. Face it! if your a nurse providing primary care in a hospital setting the public thinks you are blue collar. If you sit at a desk in administration you are percieved as white collar. Get a union !!! or Join an agency and command top dollar for now as demand is exceeding supply for your services!!

Thats right maybe nurses should bill fee for service rendered!!!!! I am sorry I cant answer your call bell unless you've got cash!! $20 for a answering a call bell. $200 for an IV start. Calling your doctor when the S+++ hits the fan FEE FOR Critical Care Service for 30 minutes $1000. How do you like them apples!

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