BSN Only Is A Wall Street Scam

[rickbar]

The push for Magnet status and BSN Only is rooted firmly in fraud. As usual, this Wall Street scam has many players and angles. To those that study propaganda and disaster capitalism; the latest from the CEO class is testament to how dumbed down the average worker has become in America.

I went to NSG school 16 years ago. The cost for a ADN at a major university, minus grants, was about 12 grand. My alma mater wants over 50 grand for me to finish my BSN. A full 90% of that BSN will be done on line. That my fellow brothers and sisters is a CEO wet dream come true. Very little staff or facility cost to eat into that profit margin.

One of reasons CEOs want BSNs is because of the student debt factor. We all know what kind of work nursing is. Short staffing is the norm since I became a nurse. Ancillary staff is always in short supply and often has a less than perfect attitude. The short term profit motive takes priority over patient care and safety today, so much so that managers don't even try to hide it or make excuses for it. We know what this leads to, another shortage. The CEOs want to the next generation of RNs deep in debt. RNs that owe 40 to 100 grand (common with the cost of education today) in student loans will think twice before leaving NSG to have kids or find work in less demanding professions. Try to unionize ?? Not too many RNs will rock the boat on any issue that bucks the bottom line. Try to improve staffing or patient care ?? My loan cost about 120 a month for 10 years, the new RNs will fight for very little thanks to the cost of school today and the CEOs know it.

Online schools are the biggest players in this scam. Online education schools can cost as much as an ivy league school, with the taxpayer footing the bill. Online schools offer many degrees to students across the country. NSG plays a major role in keeping these failed schools green with your tax dollars. Online schools are a failure across the board.

Most students that in-role will never graduate. The few students that do graduate will find their degree worthless in today's job market. The default rate on the student loans paid to these schools will make even the most jaded taxpayer want to vomit. NSGs role in all this is simple. Online schools are forced to operate under a 90/10 rule. If online schools can get just 10% of students to graduate or just 10% to find a job, the online schools can continue to get government (taxpayer) money for the other 90%. Non BSN RNs are proven students. Non BSN RNs have a track record of success in academics and will more than likely finish any online program. Non BSN RNs when they enter these programs most likely have a job and will have that job when they graduate. Are you putting this together yet ?? The push for the BSN Only is a propaganda ploy from Wall Street funded PR firms. Edward Brenays would be proud. The more non BSN RNs that attend online schools, the more students the online schools can in-role and get paid for. It is important to mention that the 90/10 rule was forced on the schools by congress because of the dismal default rate. The schools win, the Wall Street Investors win, hospital CEOs win, the non nursing students that drop out lose and the American taxpayers lose. NSG will lose as well. Workers that are trapped because of debt become slaves to the greed of the system. The greed of this system will hurt the patients we care for.

[kcmylorn]

I kind of have to agree with rick on the core theory- I must admit I am not to up on the wall street gang but the hospital CEO's game plan- Oh yah! I think there is a lot of truth to what rick is saying about the push for BSN only and that student loan debt keeping nurses mouth's shut and cowing down to the big man and his twisted self serving greed. Nurses with that kind of student loan debt- and many of them do, are less likely to protest and speakout on the pee poor sub standard staffing, incompetence and dirty conditions that prevail in our hospitals across the country these days. I am very familiar with the costs and the institutions that rick speaks of and his price quote is right on target. A few of the Brick and mortor schools- Jefferson and Drexel to be specific, that he speaks of in the Philly area have both the traditional in person classroom and on line prgrams- they are very well respected, well known nursing programs. The on line RN-BSN program of both, will cost the prices he quotes. If one needs all the general edu. courses to get the BSN- it can easily cost $50,000 for that RN-BSN. I don't think Penn. has an online BSN - it's in person will cost $53,000/year at least. I am not familiar with Temple's tuition costs but it's only a few blocks away from the other 3, so I imagine it's close in price. An if you look at the authors in Nursing on these BSN outcomes studies and pushing the BSN entry level- you will find the authors to be some of the BSN professors of Penn.- Linda Aiken! When I see these articles I always look to see who is the author first- gives me a clue as to what I'm in for when I read it. Penn is a very snobby bunch- that hospital only hires BSN's and usually their own. As a travel nurse, I was fortunate to be able to compare the qualities of nursing with other hospitals- I have to admit- I much preferred to get report form a nurse from one of the hospital schools of nursing than a BSN from Penn- I found the Penn Nurses to be very well versed on global health but not much help on the patient in the bed down the hall. JMHO

Global health is nice if you plan to do a stint at the WHO or the Peace corps. but not of much use to bedside nurses in the US

[rickbar]

I would not trust any NSG publication concerning this debate. In this area of the country, Gannett education has been a major advocate of the BSN Only push. Gannett is a subsidy of Gannett Newspapers. The parent company has a long history of aggressive anti labor activity that is well documented. In addition, these publications have lost tons of ad income when the hospitals no longer needed to place full page help wanted

ads. The ad space is now almost intirley

[rickbar]

Sorry, I hit the send key again. I will never get used to typing on an iPhone.

As I was saying - most of the income today is from the online schools. I do not see NSG Mags in a hurry to bite the hand that feeds them. The studies mean very little today. There is no shortage of folks in academia that will put out a paper in-support of a financial gain. Look no further than the climate debate, lots of papers in defense of the coal industry, all of them debunked over time. The money trail alone on this issue raises plenty of suspicion. In the last six weeks there has been lots of news coverage concerning the online schools and their greed. The US Military has asked for investigations into the online schools. After being at the bedside for 16 years, I find it hard to believe the CEOs motive for BSN Only has anything to with better care. In fact, I think this will lead to worse care for the public in the future. Who will fight the CEOs ?? Nurses that owe 10 grand and work in a open job market or the nurse that owes 80 and is working in this job market.

[Susie2310]

Im just saying im not loaded down with debt and most the nurses I know do not owe a lot either. There are a lot more online programs that are geared toward just nursing and cost very little to where most could pay out of pocket if needed. I do not feel that most schools are really using non bsn rn's in an online program purely to make money. There are some colleges that do that. I feel that there is no difference in how a bsn nurse cares for a patient versus an adn nurse but the extra courses do prepare for management. In my area, omaha, ne, there is a very little pay difference between a bsn and an adn. I guess I just dont see how it is propaganda from talking to my school and other schools across the nation. How would the western governors university fit into your scheme (im honestly interested and not being snarky)? It was created by governors of I want to say like 12 states and offers programs in nursing, business, and teaching. It is accredited, online, and costs as little as $7000 to get your bsn. Would this be the governments response to the other universities making more money from the non bsn rns and completing the 90/10? It is the cheapest school I found to complete a bsn for an adn prepared student.

In regard to your sentence: "I feel that there is no difference in how a bsn nurse cares for a patient versus an adn nurse but the extra courses do prepare for management" I was wondering what causes you to feel there is no difference. Do you observe no difference in the care provided between new grad adn and bsn new hires who are providing bedside nursing care? Or is your statement a general one? I would like to know more, as the ADN program I attended prepared us to be competent entry level bedside nurses, and I heard comments from the students in the BSN program I bridged in to that in their final semesters they had done hardly any clinical care of patients.

[decembergrad2011, BSN, RN]

I graduated with a BSN and my program had plenty of hands-on care for patients in clinicals. In fact, sometimes we felt like we were doing the jobs of CNAs because we were expected to do hygiene care, turning, and fetch snacks and drinks. It completely depends on your program.

ETA: I don't think my BSN makes me "better" or worthy of more respect than an ADN graduate. In fact, I get really upset when someone is judged by their educational preparation. Plenty of BSN graduates have no idea what they're doing and it's ridiculous to put them on a pedestal just because of their degree.

I made sure that I had "BSN" placed on my name badge alongside "RN" because I earned it and worked hard for it. I am proud to be a BSN, RN. However, I am at the very beginning of my nursing career, and I look to the ADN-prepared nurses with years of experience on my floor to guide me and help me through unfamiliar territory. I will never think that I am too good to learn from them, regardless of their credentials. We all passed the same NCLEX.

[chuckster, ADN, BSN, RN, EMT-B]

However, let me address your point if I understand it correctly. I live in Phila, Pa. I work with nurses that owe 100,000 grand in student loans for a BSN. They did not attend the city's only ivy league school. I would have to say that the cost of a BSN at one the areas private schools is in the 60 to 80 grand range. At Temple U. the city's state school, tuition will run from 12 to 15 to 20 grand a year depending on grant status.

Rickbar - I agree some of what you write but frankly, I don't think that there is an organized conspiracy here. I believe it, along with many other things such as the tax code, is simply the result of the long march of the US toward plutocracy. Those with money are able to get the changes that are most beneficial to them at the expense of the population in general. The conspiracy is not organized - if it were, it would not have taken us this long to get where were we are - but rather the result of the natural convergence of interests by the monied class. I also think that you are letting one of the most culpable parties off the hook: The ANA. The organization has for years lobbied for the BSN as the minimum requirement for entry into nursing practice and the present glut of nurses is the perfect opportunity to realize that goal.

That said, to your point above about tuition costs, in my opinion, anyone who spends $100k on their undergraduate education, regardless of the major, is foolish. There are many lower-cost alternatives - you mention Temple - my non-nursing alma mater - as one but there are a number of others. I also live in the Phila area and am an ADN out of one of the suburban CC's. My nursing degree was less than $7k. I will finish up my BSN next month, from a fully accredited, brick-and-mortar school, at a cost of about $8k. So the BSN can be had at reasonable cost. That the BSN is largely unnecessary and superfluous (I believe that the studies indicating better patient outcomes for BSN's are flawed and their conclusions dubious) is another issue altogether.

[chuckster, ADN, BSN, RN, EMT-B]

. . . I am not familiar with Temple's tuition costs but it's only a few blocks away from the other 3, so I imagine it's close in price. . . . Penn is a very snobby bunch- that hospital only hires BSN's and usually their own.

I am familiar with Temple - I'm an alum and my daughter graduated last year. Temple is less than half the price of Jeff or LaSalle, not to mention Penn - at least for PA residents. And Penn certainly used to hire ADN's - there are any number of nurses from my CC program who work there. If they've stopped hiring ADN's, that's recent and actually makes them the same as many hospitals in Phila who have gone over to the "BSN only" movement.

[llg, PhD, RN]

Rickbar is misinterpreting the 90/10 rule. That rule does NOT say that only 10% have to graduate (or get a job) for the school to admit the other 90%. That rule says that schools must get at least 10% of their income from non-govenment sources. At least 10% of their tuition, etc. must be paid by the students themselves (or from their employers, etc.) Essentially, the government is saying that if individual people aren't willing to pay at least some of the cost for the product, they are not going to finance it completely. Many people are now urging the law to be changed so to decrease the schools' dependene on tax-payer money. "If an educational program is not good enough to attract private money, there must be something wrong with it."

I am not a fan of many of the practices of for-profit schools -- and I am one of those who would like to see much stronger regulation of the education industry, the quality of education, and its financial practices. But if we are going to discuss it, let's get the facts right.

We also need to separate the issues of educational quality, education financing, and BSN requirements. While there are some linkages between them, there are also some distinctions between them that need to be acknowledged.

[kcmylorn]

rick- I am signing out of this discussion. I agree with you on the money connection and the money talks theory.

I will not get into the OP's comments and attitudes of the 'we are the best" cheer, nor is it even worth my expending energy on. That was addressed on 2 other threads- the fall for the arrogant is coming, it always does.

[Szasz_is_Right]

I also think that you are letting one of the most culpable parties off the hook: The ANA.

This.

[Susie2310]

I have both an ADN and a BSN, from very good schools. The ADN program is particularly well recognized locally by employers.

[CrunchRN, ADN, RN]

Interesting discussion. I agree about the money angle/profiteering.