A Different Approach to the ADN vs. BSN Debate

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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Over and over again, we read the same things on these threads. Pay BSN's more at the bedside, and mandate a BSN for all entry level nurses. There is widespread assumption that a BSN mandate would limit the labor supply even further and increase nursing wages.

I'm not sure that would actually happen but, for the sake of argument, let's assume that it would. Ok: so now you're making more money but, since I live in California where we have mandated staffing ratios ... it got me thinking. What's going to happen in the other 49 states where you don't have ratio laws? Isn't it possible that with a more limited labor pool the hospitals would give you even more unreasonable patient loads at the bedside than you have now?

A BSN mandate could very well limit supply and increase wages but it does nothing to improve working conditions. This is where, IMO, a ratio law is a better alternative because it does both. While a ratio law doesn't limit the supply, it does increase the demand and wages by limiting the number of assigned patients to each RN and forcing the hospitals to create more nursing positions.

Plus, it has the added benefit of making your life a hellava lot easier at the bedside which a BSN mandate doesn't do. By limiting supply even further, a BSN mandate could very well thwart attempts to mandate ratios in other states if there aren't enough nurses to staff mandated ratios.

Now ... this may not satisfy BSN nurses who want more consideration for your degrees but, this is where I don't understand you guys. I'm a recent ADN grad and I'll be spending the next two years working on my BSN. You BSN nurses are already way ahead of me.

You definitely qualify for more jobs than I do. There are, at least, some jobs where you can make more money than me at the bedside and, there are other jobs where your BSN counts as additional experience, etc. for promotion. In my area, at least, the BSN career opportunities are tremendous because there aren't that many BSN nurses to begin with. You're also way ahead of me in getting your master's, which increases your job prospects even further.

I see plenty of benefits with the BSN as it is. If I didn't ... I wouldn't bother with the time and expense of furthering my education.

And I wonder if any of the BSN nurses have considered the flip side of all of this? If everyone had a BSN then, everyone would also qualify for those other job opportunities that only you qualify for now. For nurses who don't want to work at the bedside, you already have a huge advantage over the rest of us.

Do you really want every nurse to qualify for the jobs that only you qualify for now? In some ways, this could actually be detrimental to BSN nurses who, IMO, have a huge advantage over the rest of us as it is.

As the old saying goes ... be careful what you wish for.

Just some food for thought.

:typing

RNsRWe,

I appreciate your feedback and encouragement. I've been considering going after MS but at this stage in my life not sure I want to persue more education that would ultimately lead me to adm. or teaching, and have considered case management for about a year...dragging my feet, and also legal consulting, but just have'nt found anything that lights my fire...so, will keep at it till I find something that will. I'll probably have to get out there and try a few things I'm sure, but after being out of nsg for 3 years now it won't be easy I'm sure even with a good resume. Problem is I just don't want to give up on hands on nsg. but guess I'll probably have no choice. Has anyone heard about PROLOTHERAPY? I just came across it while searching for "falling on buttocks injury), of all things...and found this tx, Dr. says it just might be my "cure" is going to refer me to L & I for this and am praying they will approve it...worth a try anyway...Please Pray (if you pray)...Thanks, Grammel

Specializes in geriatric, ltc, telemetry, med-surg.

I am in Kentucky and have been an LPN for 18 yrs. now and next May with any luck I will finally finish my ADN. I have to say I feel like I should have a BSN by then but oh well. Anyway, I just wanted to know because apparentely I am behind times. What is the debate about the BSN vs. ADN I really never realized there was one? I know that the powers that be have almost comepletely eliminated the LPN positions. Please tell me I won't have to go back and do the BSN any time soon...

Melissa

Specializes in Psych, education.

When discussing barriers to Nursing as a profession affordability and accessability are two very big barriers, especially in small states and rural areas. ADN programs in community colleges provide access and affordable tuition, and that is where their strengths lie with recruitment. Add on the fact that most RNs enter the profession in later life and/or as a second career, ADN programs are usually the easiest and quickest option toward an RN. These reasons, along with a glaring nursing shortage, are the very reasons no one is willing to take the plunge toward BSN as entry. For those states toying with BSN into entry, these reasons are why they would delineate an RN with a BSN and a Technical Nurse (TN) with their ADNs. Just one option I have heard about.

Let's try an analogy. Let's say I go into the grocery store to buy a pack of gum. I can stand in the long line behind all the filled shopping carts and pay $1.00 or I can go to the express line and get through quickly and pay $0.50. Either way I still have the same pack of gum.

Until there is any incentive given why would someone chose the long way?

Until BSN is made entry level there is no reason not to go the ADN route.

To most people outside of nursing it must look really silly to go the long route and pay more and still end up with the same job as someone that took the express route.

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

I cannot say the ADN route is "easiest" or even "fastest" route to an RN----because as llg pointed out, it's not. We end up doing a LOT more coursework and clinical experiences as well, than any other so-called "two year" program would ever require. But most AD programs ARE more widely available and affordable than BSN programs are. That is why, I personally, chose the AD route into professional nursing. Let no one think people who chose an AD route "took the easy or fast way" or are unambitious or lazy. Simply not true. For some, it was the ONLY way in that worked for them. But it was neither easy nor fast. I am with llg; time to look at AD program requirements and give more credit. It's an outrage that nearly everyone must dang near get another, separate associate's degree just to gain entry into an AD nursing program. By the time most people are accepted, they either already have an AD (like I did) or are close----and took nearly 2 (or more) years just trying to getting into nursing school. I think it would be a good idea to add the remaining classes and make them ALL baccalaureate degrees. Then we could finally stop bickering over this and find another subject to fight about. Everyone would be on "even footing" in the end.

Specializes in PEDS ~ PP ~ NNB & LII Nursery.
I am in Kentucky and have been an LPN for 18 yrs. now and next May with any luck I will finally finish my ADN. I have to say I feel like I should have a BSN by then but oh well. Anyway, I just wanted to know because apparentely I am behind times. What is the debate about the BSN vs. ADN I really never realized there was one? I know that the powers that be have almost comepletely eliminated the LPN positions. Please tell me I won't have to go back and do the BSN any time soon...

Melissa

I think you will be safe for many years to come, the rumor of going to BSN is not an old one. I think that not feeling the debate where you work is a good sign that so far the Board of Nursing, and employers feel ADN programs are needed and qualify new grads to come into the work force. With the nursing shortage set to get worse before it gets better with the baby boomers (many currently in ADN programs ;)) it would be damaging to the nursing availability.

Breath easy and enjoy your new career!

rags

Specializes in Stepdown/IMU, full-time Night shift charge.

When I go through the RN to BSN program, I will need to take only one course with a clinical component. The reason for this is the program I have chosen credits ALL of my ADN nursing courses as UPPER LEVEL nursing credit. The biggest departure in the RN to BSN is a pathophysiology course. The rest are Role Development, Role Transition, Management, Health Policy, Research, and Population Based Nursing.

I am an exception in my class, most of whom had associates, Bachelors, or masters before entering. I had 25 hours and will essentially go from scratch to BSN in 3 years, to MSN in four years if I get into the RN-BSN-MSN program. ANy idea why I went through the ADN program first? I'm also 48 y/o, so time is more of a consideration for me than it will be for many on this board.

When I go through the RN to BSN program, I will need to take only one course with a clinical component. The reason for this is the program I have chosen credits ALL of my ADN nursing courses as UPPER LEVEL nursing credit. The biggest departure in the RN to BSN is a pathophysiology course. The rest are Role Development, Role Transition, Management, Health Policy, Research, and Population Based Nursing.

I am an exception in my class, most of whom had associates, Bachelors, or masters before entering. I had 25 hours and will essentially go from scratch to BSN in 3 years, to MSN in four years if I get into the RN-BSN-MSN program. ANy idea why I went through the ADN program first? I'm also 48 y/o, so time is more of a consideration for me than it will be for many on this board.

I think I'm not following something correctly. You said you're an exception in your class, as most of them had associates, bachelor's or masters prior to entry. Yet you also said you already have an associates, so....? What is the exception? What 25 hours do you mean, and how are you going from "scratch" if you are already an RN in a bridge program? Sorry if I seem dense, lol, but I'm tired :)

Specializes in Stepdown/IMU, full-time Night shift charge.

Still in my ADN program. I had 25 hours of college credit when I started. Through CLEP and extra classes, I will have the prereqs done to enter directly into a RN-BSN program after I graduate the ADN program in May 2008. Sorry I wasn't clear.

First, let me say that I am new to the nursing arena and probably a little naive. I will start my MN second degree program in May. I chose this program mostly because of availability and speed. I certainly didn't choose it because of a perceived superiority of a Masters vs. BSN vs. ADN vs. Diploma.

Secondly, I am wise enough to know that after I complete this degree I will likely receive A LOT of extended training from experienced ADN and BSN nurses. Regardless of the degree, I'm sure all experienced nurses view new nurses as the grass trimmers around the bottom of the totum pole!:wink2:

Finally, I feel that there is a place for all nursing education levels. Good nurses should receive appropriate responsibilities and commensurate pay. However, while I don't think my MN degree should automatically vault me to the top, consideration should be made for the advanced educational effort and financial debt (totaling over $55,000 including BS in my case) for BSN and MSN/MN degrees. Is it so much to ask that we get paid a little extra? After some investigation, I was disappointed to find out that entry level wages for advanced degrees are as little as $0.80 per hour. If experience is everything, why bother?

Specializes in PEDS ~ PP ~ NNB & LII Nursery.

"If experience is everything, why bother?"

Self satisfaction. Wider range of job opportunities...

On the flip side of your question (and not to do anything other than pose a question)... why should any person receive a higher wage for doing the exact same job with the same amount as experience as someone else simply because of how much they paid for their education?

I believe equal work should = equal pay with increase for experience and specialization certificates. A new grad (or experienced nurse) has the same job description regardless of their degree, with the same expectations.

Just my opinion.

rags

"If experience is everything, why bother?"

Self satisfaction. Wider range of job opportunities...

Yes, obviously I want self satisfaction and a wider range of job opportunities. But let's be real, how much is satisfaction worth? Is it worth $20,000, because that's the difference in cost between an ADN and MN. Of course, if I understand what you're saying, advancement should be easier for me in the future after I gain valuable experience because I already hold a Masters degree. I get that.

I appreciate your opinions. Thanks!

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