RaDonda Vaught's Arraignment - Guilty or Not of Reckless Homicide and Patient Abuse?

[tnbutterfly - Mary]

A group of nurses plans to appear in their scrubs at Vaught's arraignment hearing on February 20th show their support. Included in this group is Janie Harvey Garner, founder of Show Me Your Stethoscope.

For those who are interested in showing their support by attending the arraignment, here are the details:

When?

Wednesday, February 20 @ 9:00 AM

Where?

Justice A. A. Birch Building

408 2nd Ave N,

Court Room 6D

Nashville, TN 37201

Judge: Jennifer Smith

What is Arraignment?

Once the accused is represented by counsel, the more formal part of the arraignment, the reading of the charges, takes place. The accused is expected to enter a plea: usually guilty, not guilty, or no contest. The no-contest plea means that the accused is not admitting guilt but will not contest the charges.

What is the verdict going to be???

In the following video, Janie Harvey Garner talks more about the arraignment process.

UPDATED TO ADD VIDEO RE. RADONDA VAUGHT'S NOT GUILTY PLEA

Nurse Gives Lethal Dose of Vecuronium Instead of Versed

Nurse Charged With Homicide

Nurses Call the Governor of Tennessee

[mtnNurse., BSN]

On 2/21/2019 at 11:25 PM, Wuzzie said:

I’m sorry but there are no circumstances that relieve us of our personal responsibility to practice in a prudent manner and if the board isn’t going to do anything somebody else should.

I highly recommend to those of you who want the board to act differently -- well then get more involved and fix the BON. Because you could say the same thing about the criminal justice system. If they don't deliver the verdict and punishment you deem appropriate, you could then say exactly what you said here: "if the [court] isn't going to do anything somebody else should". Does that mean you'd be calling for the mob to take matters into their own hands to ensure she is punished as you see fit? I doubt you think that. If the BON fails, focus on fixing it; don't instead call for the criminal court to handle cases the BON should handle.

11 hours ago, Wuzzie said:

22 hours ago, mtnNurse. said:

Criminal court should be reserved for malicious criminals.

So I’m guessing, from this statement, that you’re okay with no charges being filed for mercy killings by healthcare providers. After all there was no malicious intent.

That sounds like something I'd be interested in having a conversation about if you want to start a new thread for it and fill me in on what the issue is.

If you like attempting to understand others who disagree with you, it doesn't further the conversation to duplicate your posts with reference to 'Ferris Bueller's Day Off' and talk about being irritated of certain people suddenly being silent (though that is a funny movie ?). Consider that whoever you wanted to answer you might've not seen your questions yet. If any of you are not attempting to understand others who disagree with you and just want a venting board to spew out your condemnation of RV...carry on then.

[Emergent, RN]

Perhaps RaDonda was just burning her candle at both ends; working her nursing job for cash flow and insurance to fund her online business and farm.

Horny Outdoor Gear

Hidden Holler Farms

Too many irons in the fire?

[mtnNurse., BSN]

On 2/22/2019 at 1:42 AM, LilPeanut said:

I worked at a hospital with a very good reputation and was highly ranked for my specialty. I saw some completely unsafe practices and people who were unwilling to change them. I had signed a 1 year contract - I made sure that *my* practices were not what the rest of the group was doing, and I got a new job that would start pretty much the moment I hit 1 year on the contract, and consistently kept reporting the unsafe and bad things I saw.

Example: Preparing a tray for PICC insertion. They placed a non-sterile ABG syringe on the sterile tray. "Oh wait! Did you realize that wasn't sterile on the outside?" (I knew it said it was sterile on the inside of the syringe, but it was in a perforated loose plastic bag, and the outside was definitely not sterile) "Oh really? It isn't? Well, we've been putting these on our trays for years and haven't had issues". Reported that to no less than 4 people. When I left at the 1 year mark, people were still placing a non-sterile syringe on their "sterile" field prior to starting a supposed to be sterile procedure. 

If you were a school bus driver and the bus company told you to not use the flashers and safety gates and not stop at railroad crossings because they take too much time, would you do it, even knowing it could kill children? Or if you were a housekeeper and were told to mix bleach and ammonia, even though you knew it would create chlorine gas and kill you and the other people there, would you do it?

There are hotlines and whistleblower lines and places to report, and unionization is always a potential as well. But you can't just throw your hands up and say "Well, I guess I have no choice but to give ***, substandard care".

What I bolded in your post is one of my points. Nurses have to quit or be willing to be fired in order to 100% adhere to standards of practice at many or even most nursing jobs (but even in ideal conditions they can't guarantee 100% because that would be saying they're perfect and can't ever make a mistake). You did the right thing and quit. So now you're gone and nothing has changed. The unsafe work environment is still there. If one of those co-workers you left behind caused a bad outcome down the road, how would it change the unsafe work environment to fire her and criminally charge her? What good does it do?

Your questions using analogies are not consistent with this case. Had the nurse been aware she was risking killing that patient in the moments of the fatal accident, she would have been aware enough to catch her mistakes. I believe she erroneously, fallaciously "KNEW" she had no chance of killing that patient. We'll probably have to agree to disagree on that.

I love the idea of hotlines, whistleblower lines, and unions! I also agree people shouldn't just throw their hands up and consent to give substandard care. But there is often more subtlety there then consciously choosing to give substandard care. For example, if an overloaded nurse is going as fast as she can and doing her absolute best to be safe and adhere to all standards of practice and then an accident happens, that is a very different thing than if she instead just throws her hands up and says, "I give up on giving good care".

[mtnNurse., BSN]

4 hours ago, Jory said:

On 2/21/2019 at 9:20 PM, mtnNurse. said:

Here's a question for you based on the rest of the comments you made. Let's say we just start throwing in jail everyone involved in medical errors. This will lead to greater safety because...how exactly? How will criminalizing nurses prevent other nurses from having accidents? People will be too afraid of jail to make a mistake? So killing a patient isn't scary enough, but then jail would be, is what you're saying? Jail is a bigger deterrent then KILLING a patient?? And besides, how to you deter someone from having an accident?? Does that question not defy the very definition of 'accident'???

The district attorney has made it very clear why RV is being charged and for whatever reason....you keep ignoring this very important and significant difference.

I haven't ignored it...maybe you've ignored my opinions about it. We just disagree.

4 hours ago, Jory said:

Jail is not made to be a deterrent, it's made to be a punishment. How will criminalizing nurses prevent other nurses from having accidents? Well first of all, what RV did wasn't an accident...it is the end result of what happens when you make the deliberate choice to be a sloppy nurse.

By 'accident', I mean she did not kill on purpose. I can see you prefer penal rather than remedial solutions; that just makes me sad, but I know I won't sway your beliefs.

4 hours ago, Jory said:

At my hospital, routine overrides without a valid reason in a non-critical unit for a non-critical reason will have you getting a first warning, second warning, and then you are terminated. There were at least one or two nurses in almost every unit that CONSTANTLY were overriding/not scanning medications. When everyone else is at 3 to 7% and yours is at 70 to 80%? The problem is you...not the system. When brought in for counseling they all had the same flippant attitude of "I don't have time". Well...everyone else does? Why don't you?

I like your example of what a hospital could do to help prevent accidents such as what happened. Force nurses to give valid reasons for overrides and hold them accountable when they have those high numbers of overrides without valid reasons. That way, no nurse will become so accustomed to performing overrides that it is something she could do on 'auto-pilot'.

[mtnNurse., BSN]

23 hours ago, mtnNurse. said:

As I've described more in other posts, I don't think criminal charges should ever be brought against nurses (or other professionals) when malice is absent and they make mistakes or stray from standards of practice in efforts to meet impossible work demands. In such situations, the BON (or other licensing agencies for other professionals) should hold the professional accountable. Criminal court should be reserved for malicious criminals.

16 hours ago, mtmkjr said:

You can't let go of your premise I see

Quote

Premise 1: For the sake of argument, would your opinion change if you learned that staffing was adequate, and the workload was light that day?

Oh. Then replace my bolded phrase above with "in well-meaning efforts to do their jobs and not hurt anyone". So no, ideal work conditions would not change how I feel about criminal charges. And yes, I feel that way about anybody not just nurses. I think a moral society would opt for remedial rather than penal solutions -- though I feel differently for violent crimes. And I think licensing agencies should handle cases of professional accidents (again, 'accident' meaning she did not kill on purpose, so it was an accident that she killed the patient).

Have you ever heard of a hospital that has adequate staffing, light workloads, reasonable work expectations, sufficient breaks in a 12-hr shift, and is conducive in every way to keeping a nurse's brain sharp throughout that LONG work day?

[ForeverYoung018]

I remember I was working the night shift one night on an inpatient med-surg unit. At times, we were a step down unit, as well. We were 1 nurse short, yet were expected to take more admissions to our unit. Our max nurse to patient ratio was 7:1. We were being asked to take 8-9 patients per nurse. We called administration and voiced concern over this being unsafe and that that ratio threatened our licenses. Her response was "that is a crazy thing to say." When I realized that administration did not care about the safety of our patients, I quit along with many others! Those ratios have yet to change. Sadly, this is a common scenario in many hospitals.

Now what if I would have made a similar error in that circumstance? Should I be thrown in jail?

[neuron]

She was not involved in a violent crime, she simply overrode safety features. And not monitoring the patient after giving the medication. She should lose her license and possibly be sued for malpractice, not given prison time. Save the prisons for violent criminals and child abusers.

[TriciaJ, RN]

According to news reports, more than 3 dozen nurses attended RV's arraignment. I don't know; that seems like a small following to me for a city the size of Nashville. I think for an actual righteous cause the numbers would be much greater.

Of course there is all the hoopla in the news about how nurses will all be afraid to report errors and anyway it was the Pyxis's fault, the hospital's fault, yada yada. But it's gratifying to me to know that except for a few cheerleaders, most nurses aren't leaping onto the bandwagon to support what certainly looks like poor nursing practice.

It restores my faith in nursing as a profession.

[Wuzzie]

2 hours ago, mtnNurse. said:

If you like attempting to understand others who disagree with you, it doesn't further the conversation to duplicate your posts with reference to 'Ferris Bueller's Day Off' and talk about being irritated of certain people suddenly being silent (though that is a funny movie ?). Consider that whoever you wanted to answer you might've not seen your questions yet. If any of you are not attempting to understand others who disagree with you and just want a venting board to spew out your condemnation of RV...carry on then.

As I’ve mentioned to you before I’m allowed to post what I want when I want as long as it doesn’t violate the TOS of this site which I haven’t. I also want to point out that in my discourse with you I have remained polite at all times regardless of my opinion on what you post and would ask you to do the same. Characterizing my opinion as “spewing” is unnecessary and inflammatory. I am entitled to my opinion as much as you are entitled to yours regardless of the fact that they differ. You seem to be the one who is making no attempt to understand others that disagree with you as evidenced by your intolerance of what others post.

[mtnNurse., BSN]

40 minutes ago, Wuzzie said:

I am entitled to my opinion as much as you are entitled to yours regardless of the fact that they differ. You seem to be the one who is making no attempt to understand others that disagree with you as evidenced by your intolerance of what others post.

We're both wanting to be polite...sometimes we don't see what the other writes as so polite though. I think I've had more tolerance than some others about things we disagree on. But, I will try to do better. ?

I would like to hear more about what good will come of criminal charges for nurses who have accidents. I would like to try to understand why some people think our profession or society will benefit for her to be found guilty and put into prison for many years?

[Luchador, CNA, EMT-B]

58 minutes ago, mtnNurse. said:

. I would like to try to understand why some people think our profession or society will benefit for her to be found guilty and put into prison for many years?

Will probably make people pause when they peel off a warning label that says

"PARALYTIC PARALYTIC PARALYTIC PARALYTIC PARALYTIC"

Even if she is found guilty I doubt she'll do time. She's either being charged with a class D or E felony. No priors. Normal ordinary person. Tons of folks to vouch for her character. Suspended sentence, probation.

[mtnNurse., BSN]

41 minutes ago, Luchador said:

1 hour ago, mtnNurse. said:

. I would like to try to understand why some people think our profession or society will benefit for her to be found guilty and put into prison for many years?

Will probably make people pause when they peel off a warning label that says

"PARALYTIC PARALYTIC PARALYTIC PARALYTIC PARALYTIC"

Even if she is found guilty I doubt she'll do time. She's either being charged with a class D or E felony. No priors. Normal ordinary person. Tons of folks to vouch for her character. Suspended sentence, probation.

I don't understand why you think nurses would be more prone to see a warning label if they knew they could be criminally charged if they don't see it. So are you saying that the criminal charges and verdict will serve as a deterrent to purposely ignoring warning labels? If so, why do you think that would serve as a better deterrent than the horrific possibility of killing a patient would serve as a deterrent? Suppose that prior to RV's accident (again, 'accident' meaning she did not kill on purpose), she had knowledge of criminal charges for nurses' mistakes. Do you really think that would have prevented her accident?