Radonda Vaught Was A Guest On A Good Nurse / Bad Nurse Podcast

[Anonymous865]

For those of you who are following the Radonda Vaught case, she was a guest on the podcast Good Nurse Bad Nurse on January 18, 2022.  (For those not familiar with this case, search for Radonda Vaught and read the threads on the case.  It was discussed extensively.)

I stumbled across the podcast when searching for when her trial starts. 

Spoiler alert - she's the "Good Nurse" featured on the podcast.

The host gives a version of the case starting about 30 minutes 30 seconds.  Radonda starts speaking around 40 minutes.

I'm surprised her lawyer would allow her to speak publicly.

The trial is currently scheduled for 3/22/2022.

[Wuzzie]

34 minutes ago, ThePrincessBride said:

 Intent matters when facing criminal charges (hence why there is 1st degree murder vs. 2nd, 3rd degree, etc). She practiced in a manner that was not only common but encouraged at her facility (again, not right, but it just speaks on the fact that this was a system wide problem).

Why she forgot to double check the med...maybe short staffing, rushed, stressed, I don't know, doesn't excuse her poor practice. 

 

That's why she isn't being charged with murder and shouldn't be. She admits that she wasn't rushed and they weren't short-staffed

31 minutes ago, ThePrincessBride said:

 But you would rather go out on a witch hunt than come up with a solution to prevent something like this from possibly happening ever again.

This is entirely uncalled for and beneath you Princess Bride. Furthermore there is a way to keep this from happening...it's called the 5 rights of medication administration.

[Rose_Queen, BSN, MSN, RN]

2 hours ago, ThePrincessBride said:

she fully believed that she was giving versed

Yet the very different ways Versed and vec are available gave her pause when she was going to give it and she didn’t stop to confirm. Please, go find the actual investigative documents and read them. They are truly eye opening. 

[dream'n, BSN, RN]

My opinion is that criminal charges should never have been filed. Nurses work many times with high ratios/bad staffing/too critical patients and it's totally out of our hands. Many shifts are running from dumpster fire to dumpster fire.  Nurses have tried to get safe staffing and it has been turned down. Bean-counters decide the ratios and all else in the hospital. Nurses scream and scream about patient safety and never are heard. That's a large reason why nurses are so stressed and leaving the bedside. And now the DA wants to charge nurses criminally for mistakes that are made? Nope, TPTB cannot expect no mistakes to be made when the workers can't even have a voice in their own work environments and safety conditions.

Glad I'm leaving nursing to retire fairly soon.

[Wuzzie]

3 minutes ago, dream'n said:

Nurses have tried to get safe staffing and it has been turned down.

Except there wasn't a staffing issue at the time. She was a supernumerary nurse acting as a resource person for the unit she worked on. In other words...they were overstaffed. She even admits it in her statement to the TBI and in the CMS report. That's not to say that staff shortages aren't the cause of mistakes happening because our current situation certainly proves otherwise but it wasn't the case with this event. 

[dream'n, BSN, RN]

I agree that staffing wasn't the issue at the time, but who gets to decide when some other nurse makes a mistake? 

[Wuzzie]

3 minutes ago, dream'n said:

I agree that staffing wasn't the issue at the time, but who gets to decide when some other nurse makes a mistake? 

If a mistake was made I'd have to agree but she didn't make mistakes she practiced sub-par and unsafe nursing. 

[dream'n, BSN, RN]

I worked with GREAT nurse that was my preceptor when I became a RN. She had decades of nursing under her belt. She was careful and mindful. Stuck to policy, worked safely, but one night...patient wanted pain medication. She went to the Pyxis and was immediately called away for an emergency on Vocera. She ran out of the med room and as she flew by, she asked another nurse at the station to give pain meds to room 12345. This other nurse followed protocol and reviewed the orders, the last dose, etc, and gave the medication.  The GREAT nurse returned after 15 minutes or so and was overwhelmed with another patient issue but remembered the pain medication. She pulled the med and gave it. She didn't scan the med, so she didn't see that the other nurse already gave it. BIG PROBLEM! She did practice sub-par and unsafe at that moment, she definitely did. But she was an amazing nurse, that had done amazing work through the years. For that moment of sub-par care, should she go to jail?

I'm worried about the grey area that this case opens up for other nurses

37 minutes ago, Wuzzie said:

Except there wasn't a staffing issue at the time. She was a supernumerary nurse acting as a resource person for the unit she worked on. In other words...they were overstaffed. She even admits it in her statement to the TBI and in the CMS report. That's not to say that staff shortages aren't the cause of mistakes happening because our current situation certainly proves otherwise but it wasn't the case with this event. 

I'm reminded of a recent case in law enforcement where an officer who was training a new officer used her firearm rather than her taser. Police generally enjoy qualified immunity, yet that officer was charged and convicted for the death. Why shouldn't a nurse, be held responsible for not making sure that she's not killing her patient with the wrong med?

[dream'n, BSN, RN]

3 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

I'm reminded of a recent case in law enforcement where an officer who was training a new officer used her firearm rather than her taser. Police generally enjoy qualified immunity, yet that officer was charged and convicted for the death. Why shouldn't a nurse, be held responsible for not making sure that she's not killing her patient with the wrong med?

Does that mean we put nurses in jail only if the mistake is deadly? Also, a police officer doesn't have to pull either the taser or the gun. But the nurse has to provide whatever care they are responsible for. If cops are busy hunting a rapist, they don't stop for the red-light runner? Are the cops responsible if that red-light runner kills someone in a car wreck later? Apples vs Oranges I think

3 minutes ago, dream'n said:

Does that mean we put nurses in jail only if the mistake is deadly? Also, a police officer doesn't have to pull either the taser or the gun. But the nurse has to provide whatever care they are responsible for. If cops are busy hunting a rapist, they don't stop for the red-light runner? Are the cops responsible if that red-light runner kills someone in a car wreck later? Apples vs Oranges I think

I don't understand any of your argument.  That officer's conviction was based entirely on the fact that she was going to use a taser, which would have been an acceptable use of force, but she was sloppy and grabbed her gun instead.  The nurse was going to give versed, which was an appropriate medication for the circumstance, but she was sloppy and gave a paralytic instead. Can you see the parallel in professional failure?

 

[dream'n, BSN, RN]

Every nurse has made a mistake; therefore, every nurse has at one time or another practiced sub-par and unsafely. So, if the mistake happens to be deadly, the nurse should be prosecuted criminally for reckless homicide and placed in prison?

4 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

I don't understand any of your argument.  That officer's conviction was based entirely on the fact that she was going to use a taser, which would have been an acceptable use of force, but she was sloppy and grabbed her gun instead.  The nurse was going to give versed, which was an appropriate medication for the circumstance, but she was sloppy and gave a paralytic instead. Can you see the parallel in professional failure?

 

I agree it doesn't make complete sense, LOL. I think I had a brain fart in the middle of it ?

 

5 minutes ago, dream'n said:

Every nurse has made a mistake; therefore, every nurse has at one time or another practiced sub-par and unsafely. So, if the mistake happens to be deadly, the nurse should be prosecuted criminally for reckless homicide and placed in prison?

I agree it doesn't make complete sense, LOL. I think I had a brain fart in the middle of it ?

 

The nurse could be prosecuted, yes.  Do we have a qualified immunity for causing death while breaking several cardinal "rules" in our procedure?