Unbelievable: Came to work this morning to find a new woman eating with our ALF division. Nurse doesn't know her, the CNA says that she heard from the Activities Director that she is going to be eating with us from now on even though she is not a resident and we are to serve her food with the others. Activities Dir tells me she heard from our CEO that this is so. I turned to our SW who says "Yeah, her family wants her to move here but we have no room so she will eat with us in the interim"
I ask "and who is responsible for her"
SW answers "We not responsible for her"
Me"And if she falls or chokes"
SW "We are not responsible we should just call the daughter".
ME "who has her number?"
SW"I have it somewhere, I cant find it right now":banghead:
Can you believe the lack of communication? And Such ostriches! If she is eating with us- of course we are responsible for her!, I have no idea if she has Diabetes, Epilepsy, What meds shes taking, allergies, etc. Who will they sue and who has a license to lose?
Do you think it will hold up in court that the SW told me I'm not responsible?
It gets better: I ask for info on her
SW " You don't need to know all that, you're not responsible for her":devil:
The CNA gave her food, she participated in activities, she roamed around bothering everyone, she is confused and gets lost. Her daughter left her by us from 7:30 and picked her up at 4pm. She kept asking us to bring her a drink, She is easily upset,
Sounds like we are responsible for her- doncha think?
How about calling the police on her daughter? You might also want to contact the law office that defends and represents the nursing home.Start with the senior partner! This is elder abuse!
Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
Spokane, Washington
Thanks, We have given the CEO an official complaint on this one- turns out the SW didn't know about it till I came to her. When we spoke she pretended as if she knew about it- she was covering because she thought that she just missed a memo or message and was supposed to know about this.
In the meantime, yesterday the woman approaches us with a request for her meds- claiming her son told her to get them from us. Says she didn't get them at home before she left. In addition, she approached a visitor and asked if they have an aspirin for her headache. We found her resting in another pts bed.
Since she isn't a patient i don't have a chart to document all this- I just write letters and keep copies.
I was told not to call the police because she is a potential client- we are just waiting for an available bed for her. So we have to be nice to her...
Again Unbelievable situation. I am just the ADON, the DON says let the SW deal with it. Until then, I hope nothing happens.
Agree this is a very poorly thought out solution to family's requests.
I think the DON would have to be present when this patient whenever she eats.
Look for a new job.
Why?
I like my job, no place is perfect- the grass is not greener at the neighbors.
I asked an attorney- as long as I have already written letters to the CEO and SW that I can not be responsible for her, she is not a resident, has no contract with the facility, I was never given papers about her etc, she is just a visitor. If the kitchen wants to feed her- I am not invoved. I have already instructed my staff not to bring her so much as a cup of water. If slhe falls etc, don't touch her, call an ambulance immediately as you would any guest. My DON is is waiting for the SW to deal with it.
Gee, when I read this I immediately began to wonder if I could go hang out at an ALF and get meals, meds, and attention too. Lord, knows I need the company and I can't pay to live there.
Gee, when I read this I immediately began to wonder if I could go hang out at an ALF and get meals, meds, and attention too. Lord, knows I need the company and I can't pay to live there.
If they'll give you meals, meds and attention for free- I am sure that you will have plenty of company.
Good news, I just had my meeting with the CEO- and we won't be seeing her again except as a resident when and if a room becomes available. On Sunday the family is coming in with all her papers- med records and will start the admission process including interview with SW, RN ( me) and MD. But now I've already heard from my staff that she tends to get angry easily and has thrown food at the staff. Sent this in a letter to my CEO.
When they come applying- Guess what? ..... I don't want her.
We've had to get rid of violent patients before, now we have this info before the admission and we can and will hold it against her.
Often we got clients and the families who withheld info like this, then we are stuck dealing with it, The ALF division of our LTC doesn't have the staffing for violent patients.
Last time this happened it took us 6 months to get rid of a violent patient- she hit her roommate and disturbed the whole unit from 5am (refused meds) . To get rid of her we had to convince her that she was going to an orthopedic consult for her back pain (true) and while she was there we moved all her things to another facility that was willing to take her.
While at the Dr's office,her family (who were worse than she was -they hit and spit at staff and our CEO) got a call from the DOH informing them that she was transferred to a new facility. The DOH were involved in the whole thing and arranged the transfer once the new facility built her her own room separate from others ( she had been in 5 facilities in the span of 18 months - 6 months by us!!).
So we won't take any chances with another violent patient.
Assisted lving is pretty much for the a&o, no? WHy is someone this problematical even coming to an ALF?!
For the money. This is why I refused two recent offers to be either DON or ADON of a ALF. I had thoroughly rotten experiences with the admission people putting totally inappropriate folks into an ALF I worked at in the mid 90s.
To the OP I am glad that your CEO responded appropriately to your complaint. I think that this stunt was one of the most lame brained things I have ever heard of happening.
I personally feel that only nurses should be admissions people to any type of nursing facility. I could fill pages with the issues that have resulted from inappropriate admissions in the various places I have worked through the years.
i think suesquatch was referring to the woman- guest of our facility . as i wrote. i will recommend that she not be admitted.
this is why i refused two recent offers to be either don or adon of a alf. i had thoroughly rotten experiences with the admission people putting totally inappropriate folks into an alf i worked at in the mid 90s.
we are a 200 bed facility 30 of them alf , 50 beds for alzheimers/dementia ambulatory clients and the rest snf
to the op i am glad that your ceo responded appropriately to your complaint. i think that this stunt was one of the most lame brained things i have ever heard of happening.
i personally feel that only nurses should be admissions people to any type of nursing facility.
:yeah:
i could fill pages with the issues that have resulted from inappropriate admissions in the various places i have worked through the years.
this wasn"t an admission - thats the crazy part!!!!
We had a holiday party for pts and families, this "guest" shows up alone. Party ended at 5:30, son comes to fetch her at 6:30 and she is not in the Nsg Home. He goes beserk, demands we call the police because "YOU PEOPLE WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR HER!!!"
An hour later she was found near her home- she had been lost.
Now everyone says "How did you know?"
Well DUH- You all knew too!! Thanks for the support!
We had a holiday party for pts and families, this "guest" shows up alone. Party ended at 5:30, son comes to fetch her at 6:30 and she is not in the Nsg Home. He goes beserk, demands we call the police because "YOU PEOPLE WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR HER!!!"
An hour later she was found near her home- she had been lost.
Now everyone says "How did you know?"
Well DUH- You all knew too!! Thanks for the support!
What did you say to him when he said you were responsible for her? Now he probably wants to sue you because she got lost... maybe after this he will not want her to be admitted to your facility.
I didn't say anything- I left the building at the end of the party , the recreation dept head answered that she was here as a guest and we had over 250 people at the party- since she is not a resident, the staff had no hold to keep her here, He DID say that he wanted to sue- and the rec head said- go right ahead- do what you feel is right. The rec head refused to call the police to inform them of the missing lady as we are not responsible for her.
The truth is we don't want her as a resident anyway- she is abusive, chain smoker and is confused. The family thinks she is more independent than she really is. We would put her in our Alzheimers unit not our ALF.
In any event - I don't care if the family sues- maybe then the CEO will learn to listen to me more.
I'm covered as I wrote memos to all from the start that the nursing staff and CNA's refuse to be responsible for a guest. We had no info on her (diagnosis, meds etc.)We never gave her anything- not so much as a light for her cig.
I can't imagine that the nsg staff can be held responsible. In any event she was found an hour later.
Specializes in med-surg 5 years geriatrics 12 years.
You can bet that if something does go wrong you will suddenly be responsible. And with the trickle down responsibility you know who's a** will be on the line. I would be checking up the chain of command to see what can be done. CYA CYA CYA
:yeah:
barefootlady, ADN, RN
2,174 Posts
Agree this is a very poorly thought out solution to family's requests.
I think the DON would have to be present when this patient whenever she eats.
Look for a new job.