"Why don't you just be a doctor?"

anon456, BSN, RN · May 13, 2010

As a medical student I have been taught to treat the PERSON who has the disease. So please tell your nursing instructor that she shouldn't place all physicians into a box.
I'll ask my cousin a Family Doctor from Canada who now works at a volunteer clinic in Kenya whether she treats the "People". Or my old physiology professor who spends his summer in India along with four other doctors treating the "disease".
Sorry I needed to Vent as I hate when people say that. Its quite rude as its basically saying doctors only care about the curing the actual illness regardless of the emotional state of the person. Please lets not paint everyone with one brush. BECAUSE ITS JUST NOT FAIR!!!
Anyways carry on.....:)

You have a good point and I'm sorry.

It's unfair to categorize people-- I just have had more bad experiences than good ones with doctors in my person life (not as a nurse, as a patient). I have also had a few gems of doctors who really did care, followed up personally, and remembered things about our family aside from medical stuff. I hope you are one of the good ones. :redbeathe

CuriousMe · May 13, 2010

As a medical student I have been taught to treat the PERSON who has the disease. So please tell your nursing instructor that she shouldn't place all physicians into a box.
I'll ask my cousin a Family Doctor from Canada who now works at a volunteer clinic in Kenya whether she treats the "People". Or my old physiology professor who spends his summer in India along with four other doctors treating the "disease".
Sorry I needed to Vent as I hate when people say that. Its quite rude as its basically saying doctors only care about the curing the actual illness regardless of the emotional state of the person. Please lets not paint everyone with one brush. BECAUSE ITS JUST NOT FAIR!!!
Anyways carry on.....:)

I always assumed that saying had more to do with the different educational models than a personal attack against physicians. Physicians are taught to make a differential diagnosis....so, they look at the dysfunction and based on the likelihood of that collection of abnormal findings and rule-out diagnostics, a medical diagnosis is made.

Nursing looks at the patient's reaction to the illness, and makes nursing diagnosis's and ultimately interventions based on that information.

Thus the statement, the physician treats the disease (they're focusing on the differential diagnosis) and the nurse treats the person (focusing on the person's reaction to the disease).

allthaticanbe · May 13, 2010

Anon45- Oh I totally understood you did not mean it as an insult or a stereotype. I was just pointing out how some people- like myself, my percieve that comment.

maestrotee · May 13, 2010

I'm a male nurse. The other day, after assessing a little old lady, she squeezed my hand and smile and said' "You're gonna be a great doctor!" I thanked her and smiled.

A couple months ago, I was talking with another elderly man who was asking me about my career choice in nursing and he asked, "So why didn't you become a pastor?" Mind you, the conversation had nothing whatsoever with spiritual issues. In fact, I didn't even talk about my role as a nurse in caring for people. I think I could only utter " ... ummmmh .... wow .... " and left the room. Way out of left field! That one threw me.

johnnybravo8802 · May 13, 2010

Honey, you might as well get used to it because it will happen a lot-I've probably heard that 2000 times in my career. After a while, you just laugh and walk away. I usually tell people that "I want to have a life outside of my job." Mostly what I hear is, "He's just a nurse." It's literally become the house hold joke to say, "I'm just a nurse!!!!" The irony is that very few people respect a nurse and nobody has a clue what you do. Doctor's don't respect you, management doesn't, patients don't, other services don't. Six long years of hard work to get an education and nobody wants to give you credit, especially doctors. I've literally heard quite a few MD's comment that "nurses are idiots." I don't want to be pessimistic but, "Get used to it."

teeniebert, LPN · May 13, 2010

A couple months ago, I was talking with another elderly man who was asking me about my career choice in nursing and he asked, "So why didn't you become a pastor?" Mind you, the conversation had nothing whatsoever with spiritual issues. In fact, I didn't even talk about my role as a nurse in caring for people. I think I could only utter " ... ummmmh .... wow .... " and left the room. Way out of left field! That one threw me.

Perhaps he noticed your therapeutic communication skills, and thought of another profession where those skills are necessary.

sun2shine2u · May 13, 2010

I completely understand the frustration you feel, as I have been asked the same thing many times by EVERYONE. Even other nurses have asked "why did you not just go to med school, you are young enough?" I refuse to let others ignorance, tell me what I should have done. I personally tell them that I prefer the scope of nursing to that of a doctor. I like getting my hands dirty so to speak, and spending time with the patients. Kudos to you for standing your ground!

geminigirl11 · May 13, 2010

My step-son was thinking of nursing while he was in high school. At a dinner party one night, an elderly lady was very attentively listening about my choice of career. When it came up that my step-son was also considering nursing, she looked aghast and indignent that he would not become a doctor. I really don't think she realized how it all sounded plus she was a little drunk. It felt so insulting then and now I can chuckle at it. My step-son eventually went to college for something else and NOW he is considering nursing because, surpirse, surprise, there are not many jobs in his field.

This is slightly off topic. A funny story that highlights cultural influences: I was chatting w/ a neighbor who I had not met before; he was from a Slavic country. I said I worked at the hospital down the street and he excitedly told me that his son also worked there. I said,"oh! Is your son a nurse?" He said "oh no! He's a male nurse!" It still makes me laugh. This man's idea of reality was so interesting and inaccurate.

ballerinagirl · May 13, 2010

Why would he NOT want her to be a nurse? In the end, he prevailed and now she is finishing up her residency. She has a ton of debt. I hope she really loves being a doctor because she will be locked into her career for the rest of her life, like it or not. It will be years and years before she's out of debt. She will undoubtedly NOT have the option of staying home with her babies and her patients will probably always come first. Sorry, but that doesn't seem like a good trade-off to me.

The ones that really hate it get out as soon as their debts are paid. There are countless stories of doctors giving up medicine because it's not what they signed up for. A number of them go into office jobs in the pharmaceutical industry and they are having just as much fun there with the 8 am to 5 pm jobs they have. Of course -- those are harder to come by.

There are actually a number of caring doctors who went into medicine because they really cared. At the same time, there are also a bunch of RNs running around who care nothing about their patients and do the minimum job possible to get a paycheck. So sometimes the issue really goes both ways -- a number of doctors should have probably become nurses but they succumbed to the "why don't you just be a doctor" question for the lack of having a good enough comeback line. And really -- at 21 yrs of age, when your entire family is expecting you to be an MD and they are banking on you to follow what they say, not every 21 yr old has the guts or even the means to support themselves and so they are pushed into things. Sad but true.

momof4ndocswife · May 13, 2010

My perspective is a bit different. I'm married to a physician, was accepted into medical school myself in the mid-70's, and after weighing the pros/cons of a 2-physican marriage and the sacrifices it would require to get there and maintain it, declined. (Read on if you want details).

The army paid for hubby's prestigious med school education. We wouldn't have a lifetime of financial debt, but would be serving several years in active military duty. He'd received his #1 match for residency which was in a different state from my medical school acceptance so for me to attend would require that he pass up his very competitive residency slot or we live apart. In the big picture, our lifetime goals weren't career oriented, but family oriented. I chose to postpone any further education after obtaining my BS and supported hubby as we also began to build a family. For us, it was a wise choice.

Over the next decade, we moved several times, including a 3 yr tour of duty in Germany (1980-83). We enjoyed visiting different parts of the world, meeting interesting people, and making wonderful friends. When we left the military, (hubby's age: 33), he joined a wonderful group of Family Physicians who shared our family values and ethics. Our 4th child was born as we were struggling to build a private practice in the civilian world. We'd actually taken a pay cut in the move, so money was tight for the next 8 yrs, but we lived conservatively and managed. My life was busy and full as I raised 4 children and stayed occupied with volunteer work in the community, church, and schools. I enjoyed caring for ill relatives, reading hubby's medical journals, accompanying him to conferences and assisting in his office.

When our 2 youngest were approaching teen yrs, I began thinking, "what next?" and considered grad school. Then...hubby was hit by an SUV on his motorcycle while riding home from work one evening. Thankfully, his helmet saved his head, but an undiagnosed tib/fib FX in a crowded ER led to compartment syndrome that almost took his leg and threatened his life. By God's grace, I instinctively knew something wasn't right and went seeking the ER Md to take another look. During a critical timeframe, hubby was rushed into the OR for a 6 hr vascular/orthopedic surgery, landing in ICU for 4 days, followed by 2 weeks in the hospital with 3 trips to the OR for skin grafts, wound debridement, etc. I took him home to a hospital bed with an external fixator protecting his leg and TID pin site cleanings & dressing changes to the areas of fasciotomies, by-pass grafts, etc. He said he'd talk me through it instead of using a home health nurse, so I provided his nursing care at home.

Everyone had assumed I was a nurse b/c of my questions and knowledge when we were in the hospital and at follow up appts. When I later expressed interest in nursing school, many of our friends (several who were MDs) and family asked, "Why not go to medical school?" My answer... because I truly believe I'm called to be a nurse! When I was younger, I hadn't known what nursing care entailed, but after all of those weeks in the hospital (ICU + a med-surg floor), I knew the difference good nursing care could make in the life of a patient. I had learned how valuable collaborative care was and I knew I wanted to participate. I wanted to care for patients throughout the day and really get to know them in that intimate way that nurses are invited into the lives of patients and their families. I didn't want to feel the financial pressure to see as many patients as I could in a limited amount of time.

Hubby was out of work for 6 months before returning part time. During his recovery, I learned a lot about compassion that I doubt I'd otherwise known. I gained a new appreciation for the disabled as I dealt with maneuvering a heavy wheelchair in public settings. I decided to enroll in a local technical college to re-take outdated biology courses and await available nursing courses. Upon starting my journey, I had assumed I'd have my Assoc degree within 2 yrs, but my journey was interrupted during 3rd semester of clinicals with my mother's breast cancer dx. I withdrew from the program in order to take care of Mom (out of town) and take her to weekly chemo tx. When her cancer was declared in remission, I returned to school, but couldn't get back into classes, so I then started another 2.5 yr process, commuting 100 miles/day to earn a BSN from a nearby university program.

The journey was much longer and more challenging than I'd ever anticipated, but med-surg nursing makes my heart sing! I simply love what I do... caring for people and collaborating with other health care providers who respect my nursing judgment. I really enjoy explaining to pts the rationales behind our interventions, the meaning of their labs, treatments, etc. Often I'm asked by pts why I didn't go to medical school and I simply smile and tell them that I love being a nurse and that if I was a doctor, I wouldn't have the privilege of spending all day taking care of them. I realize that they usually mean it as a compliment and simply don't understand the different roles.

The general public is ignorant about most professions they don't have access to and I've learned that includes nurses who often don't understand the medical profession. My husband is a Board Certified Family Physician who also has Board Certification in Geriatrics. To remain certified, every 10 yrs he must re-take his Geriatrics boards and every 6 yrs re-take his FP boards, plus submit charts to those boards for review, as well as keep up with a significant amount of annual group + individual CME. I work with general surgeons who are never required to re-take their boards once they become certified... and a lot of surgeons aren't even board certified. However... the general public views surgery as the "Intellectual Varsity" of the medical world... that I'm sure you all know from experience, isn't true. (I know from hubby's class rank that it wasn't usually those in the top of the class who went into surgery). My husband is a brilliant, but humble man. He chose Family Practice b/c he loves caring for the whole patient and building lifetime relationships with them. In turn, they adore him and at 59, he still loves what he does, with no talk of retirement.

I often hear nurses refer to Board Certified Family Physicians as "GPs" failing to recognize their 3 yrs of residency training plus board certification. A "GP" is simply a doctor who did a 1 yr internship and hung out his shingle to practice general medicine without any extra training or certification. GPs may or may not have kept up with the latest drugs and changes in medical care while FPs will be tested on them.

I'm not offended when asked why I didn't go to medical school... nor why aren't you an ICU nurse... or "Why don't you get your masters" ... or "Why not become a nurse practitioner?" I've learned from my gracious husband, who simply smiles when he hears himself often referred to as "a GP," that what matters is that I know I'm providing excellent patient care and fulfilling my life's calling.

I went into nursing late in life, but the most valuable lesson I had already learned along the way from life's experiences that has most helped me stay focused and persevere in both nursing school and career is: It's Not About Me.

To all of you who are pursuing a nursing education and are young in your careers, my #1 word of advice is that whenever troubling issues arise....Keep your Patient the Central Focus. If you begin to feel insulted, hurt, offended, etc. by patients who are insensitive, ignorant, and rude, etc., try to step away and remove your personal identity from the picture. Put the focus back on the patient. We do spend a lot of time with patients, but the other nice thing is that quite often, if we're dealing with an irritating pt, it's short-lived! My husband has been dealing with some of his irritating, unteachable patients since 1984! They won't be discharged before he returns the next shift!

annacat · May 13, 2010

Is there a place where nurses and doctors can communicate about common problems that we are having with each other out side of work? I am greatful for the reply given by the medical student.

I am looking for a place where I can communicate with doctors to try to understand them better. There is a lot of anymosity between the nurses and some of the doctors where I work. I wishd it wasn't that way but it is.

Any one have any suggestions?

WondeR.N. · May 13, 2010

i have always been disappointed when i see/hear disrespectful attitudes/comments between or about doctors and nurses. interestingly, this was posted to the news section of allnurses today:

"2009 survey: doctor nurse behavior--problems impact patient care

bad blood:

doctor-nurse behavior problems impact patient care

by carrie johnson

examine the eye-opening results of the acpe survey on doctor nurse behavior and learn how the problems can directly affect patient care.

according to the survey results, outrageous behavior

is still common in this country's health care organizations.

more than 2,100 physicians and nurses participated in the

survey, and some of the tales they related were surprising:[color=#e36a27][color=#e36a27]

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physicians groping nurses and technicians as they

tried

to perform their jobs.

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tools and other objects being flung across the or.

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[color=#e36a27]*

personal grudges interfering with patient care.

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accusations of incompetence or negligence in front of

patients and their families.

according to the respondents, the fundamental lack of

respect between doctors and nurses is a huge problem that

affects every aspect of their jobs. staff morale, patient safety

and public perception of the industry all suffer as a result.

the electronic survey was emailed to about 13,000 doctors

and nurses. of those who participated, about 67 percent

were nurses and 33 percent were physicians.

behavior problems are obviously pervasive: nearly 98

percent of the survey respondents reported witnessing behavior

problems between doctors and nurses in the past year.

responses were divided over how frequently problems arose.

about 30 percent of participants said bad behavior

occurred several times a year, while another 30 percent said

it happened weekly, and about 25 percent said monthly. a

surprising 10 percent said they witnessed problems between

doctors and nurses every single day.

what was the most common complaint? degrading

comments and insults that nearly 85 percent of participants

reported experiencing at their organizations. yelling was second,

with 73 percent. other typical problems included cursing,

inappropriate joking and refusing to work with one another.

some of described behavior is criminal, and would

appear to meet the criteria for an assault charge, such as

throwing scalpels or squirting a used syringe in a co-worker's

face. but according to some survey participants, it's the dayto-

day putdowns and slights that can be the most harmful.

"the worst behavior problem is not the most egregious,"

wrote one participant. "it's the everyday lack of respect and

communication that most adversely affects patient care and

staff morale."

physician, heal thyself

while there were complaints about nurse behaviors,

both doctors and nurses who filled out the survey said physicians

were to blame for a large part of disruptive behaviors.

many of the participants accused physicians of patronizing

and belittling nurses, a pattern some surmise may have been

instilled in medical school."