I was at a Walgreens pharmacy waiting with my mom for her scripts to be filled. An elderly woman, wearing a pink ball cap and sparce, thinned gray hair approached the counter. I could hear her conversation without even trying to listen. She asked the pharmacist what she should cleanse a small cut with. The pharmacist told her to use saline and pointed to were it was so she could buy some.
As she passed me, I did not know the pharmacist was making his way behind her, I politely said, "ma'am, I wasn't trying to ease drop, but you can just use soap and water and save some money, I'm a Nurse."
The pharmacist came right up behind me, moved in front of my face and said, "I don't think she asked you, she asked me" as he swayed that neck left to right.
Well, I was pissed at how rude he was, I went and talked to the manager, then went back to the counter to pick up scripts.
He came to the register and stood behind the cashier and said, "Just so you know, I have a PhD, and I know more you do" My jaw dropped and told him his PhD sure didn't teach him how to treat others. He kept arguing with me and mom. Finally, I had to walk away after he told me, "My name is Dr. Peebles " after telling him I was going to contact coporate and file a complaint.
Uggg, I know I was sticking my nose out but he didn't have to act so hateful
And that's what I was trying to differentiate, what you're describing is an issue of conversational etiquette, not some sort of statutory limitation on what nurses can do.
No, I'm not just talking about "conversational etiquette," I think it's highly unprofessional to provide unsolicited healthcare advice, which is technically treatment. This scenario (tap water vs. saline to clean a minor wound) is pretty tame, but where do you draw the line? Is it okay to insert yourself, unasked, into the professional relationship between this pharmacist and client and make other kinds of suggestions counter to the pharmacist's instructions? If one observes people on the street with some kind of health problem, do you expect nurses to just walk up and start telling the person what to do, 24/7? What happens when there is some kind of negative outcome?
Again, as noted earlier in the thread, if you're at work, and you're providing education and advice within the scope of your practice as part of doing your job for a client with whom you have an existing professional relationship, and someone else just passing by inserts her/himself into the conversation, uninvited, and says, "I'm a different kind of health professional, and you can disregard MunoRN's instructions and do XYZ instead," do you consider that appropriate professional behavior on the part of the other individual?
Registered Nurses are an independently licensed profession and has an independent scope that is not dependent on a doctor, employer, etc. Nurses are expected to give medical advice all of the time, in addition to wound care education, we educate about medications, disease management, signs and symptoms, etc. All of these are allowed to be done without direct employer or physician direction, nurses commonly assess for learning needs, develop an education plan, and implement that plan without any protocols or other delegation.
Yes, but we do all that within the context of an existing professional relationship. We don't just randomly interfere in people's lives. And, as a matter of fact, generalist RNs and LPNs don't give "medical advice" -- they give nursing advice, and reinforce education and advice already provided by a physician, but they definitely do not give medical advice. Again, this particular scenario (saline vs. tap water) is pretty mild, but people are going to find themselves in hot water and outside the scope of their practice pretty quick once they start down that road.
He is a doctorate of pharmacy by spending enuff boring time in a classroom. And i agree he must also have taken "crap on people 101" he should have had the smarts to avoid causing a bad situation for everyone. People get so butthurt over status. Signed normal joe
You apparently mean that as a put-down and dismissal of the pharmacist, but "spending enuff boring time in a classroom" is how everyone with a doctorate got a doctorate. And pharmacists don't just spend "boring time in a classroom," they do clinical rotations and research, just like everyone else in any kind of clinical doctoral program. IMO, the OP is the person who created the problem and should have had "the smarts" to avoid the situation.
Well, did the old lady buy the saline or take your suggestion?
I dont think it was out of line to offer a cheaper alternative to someone in the community as long as the interaction remained between just the two of you. I realize that you didnt know the pharmacist overheard you say that so at that point, you should have backed off immediately. I cant believe you continued to argue with him and went as far as making a complaint.
She bought the saline. ...#facepalm
#footinmouth. Lol.
I'm going to say this again.
IN RETROSPECT, PRETTY MUCH IMMEDIATELY AFTER I COOLED OFF, I KNEW I SHOULDN'T HAVE SAID ANYTHING. I MADE A COMPLAINT ABOUT HIS BEHAVIOR TO ME AS A CUSTOMER NOT A NURSE AND HOW RUDE HE ACTED TO ME. MY EGO MAY HAVE BEEN HURT A LITTLE BIT I KNOW THAT WE HAVE TO BE HUMBLED SOMETIMES, THAT WAS ONE OF TIME.
AGAIN, I LEARNED MAY A LESSONS THAT DAY THAT WILL MAKE ME A BETTER LEADER AND PROFESSIONAL IN THE FUTURE!
I APPRECIATE THOSE WHO HAVE ACTUALLY GAVE ME RESPECTFUL FEEDBACK
Hope your malpractice insurance is paid and up to date.
Really, I am posting anonymously about a mistake I made and learned from, hoping others will too. A lot of these posts are not nice and don't offer any constructive feed back, like this one.
@mendedheart, when I see middle aged or older women wearing pink ballcaps, I wonder if they are either undergoing cancer treatment or are cancer survivors. If someone is undergoing radiation treatment they may find the saline more soothing to a wound than soap and water.
@mendedheart, when I see middle aged or older women wearing pink ballcaps, I wonder if they are either undergoing cancer treatment or are cancer survivors. If someone is undergoing radiation treatment they may find the saline more soothing to a wound than soap and water.
She did look like a cancer patient. I think I wanted to save her money the most out of anything and I didn't think before I spoke (currently trying to install my filter☺) Very good point you make!
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
Really, I am posting anonymously about a mistake I made and learned from, hoping others will too. A lot of these posts are not nice and don't offer any constructive feed back, like this one.
OP, with all due respect, I find your going to report him for "rudeness" to be every bit as ego driven and inappropriate as you butting in on something that was none of your business. I'm willing to bet that if another professional undermined your teaching at work, you might have reacted in a similar defensive manner that the inappropriate one would have deemed to be "rude." The whole thing was not one of your better moments, imo.
It's nice to see that you still recognize how to help others... Obviously... By many of the comments below... You are one of the few who realize that you are in a helping profession! To the one comment "Less aggravation for me"....but we are in the helping profession... what about "helping" others in general! This poor lady may have been using her last $5 until her social security check comes. People go without meds altogether or uses half what is prescribed every day because they can't afford it.
That however is not the bigger point.... It is that people in general A) are rude and obnoxious and rarely treat others with a tiny bit of respect. And B) people generally will not help others because it is less aggravation for them! I commend you for trying to HELP this lady!
Just my observation after working in health care probably longer than most of you have been alive!
It doesn't matter that one has any type of degree or NOT what matters is that this person was willing to help this lady and the obviously rude and obnoxious pharmacist needs to retire because he doesn't know how to treat people kindly! I hope you are taking your mothers business elsewhere!! I sure would!!
By the way... The writer of the original scenario could just as easily have a doctorate... Bet she still would not treat anyone the way the pharmacist did.... And I don't care how many degrees he has!
Specializes in Med/Surg, OR, Peds, Patient Education.
I was at a Walgreens pharmacy waiting with my mom for her scripts to be filled. An elderly woman, wearing a pink ball cap and sparce, thinned gray hair approached the counter. I could hear her conversation without even trying to listen. She asked the pharmacist what she should cleanse a small cut with. The pharmacist told her to use saline and pointed to were it was so she could buy some.
As she passed me, I did not know the pharmacist was making his way behind her, I politely said, "ma'am, I wasn't trying to ease drop, but you can just use soap and water and save some money, I'm a Nurse."
The pharmacist came right up behind me, moved in front of my face and said, "I don't think she asked you, she asked me" as he swayed that neck left to right.
Well, I was pissed at how rude he was, I went and talked to the manager, then went back to the counter to pick up scripts.
He came to the register and stood behind the cashier and said, "Just so you know, I have a PhD, and I know more you do" My jaw dropped and told him his PhD sure didn't teach him how to treat others. He kept arguing with me and mom. Finally, I had to walk away after he told me, "My name is Dr. Peebles " after telling him I was going to contact coporate and file a complaint.
Uggg, I know I was sticking my nose out but he didn't have to act so hateful
Rant over, TY
My husband and I have a good friend with a PhD. He is a retired professor who taught at a local college. He always has wanted people to call him by his first name. He went on to say that the term, "Dr," should be reserved for physicians with MDs. He told us that obtaining a PhD did not take "brilliance," but it took perseverance and time.
I must say that many of the professors, with whom I was privileged to have had in college, were not addressed as "Dr." Those professors who "demanded" that he/she be addressed as "Dr." were not usually the best professors and three never secured tenure.
Perhaps the pharmacist, whom you had the displeasure of meeting, had an issue with insecurity, too?
elkpark
14,633 Posts
No, I'm not just talking about "conversational etiquette," I think it's highly unprofessional to provide unsolicited healthcare advice, which is technically treatment. This scenario (tap water vs. saline to clean a minor wound) is pretty tame, but where do you draw the line? Is it okay to insert yourself, unasked, into the professional relationship between this pharmacist and client and make other kinds of suggestions counter to the pharmacist's instructions? If one observes people on the street with some kind of health problem, do you expect nurses to just walk up and start telling the person what to do, 24/7? What happens when there is some kind of negative outcome?
Again, as noted earlier in the thread, if you're at work, and you're providing education and advice within the scope of your practice as part of doing your job for a client with whom you have an existing professional relationship, and someone else just passing by inserts her/himself into the conversation, uninvited, and says, "I'm a different kind of health professional, and you can disregard MunoRN's instructions and do XYZ instead," do you consider that appropriate professional behavior on the part of the other individual?
Yes, but we do all that within the context of an existing professional relationship. We don't just randomly interfere in people's lives. And, as a matter of fact, generalist RNs and LPNs don't give "medical advice" -- they give nursing advice, and reinforce education and advice already provided by a physician, but they definitely do not give medical advice. Again, this particular scenario (saline vs. tap water) is pretty mild, but people are going to find themselves in hot water and outside the scope of their practice pretty quick once they start down that road.