"Don't waste your time getting your BSN..."

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People are always trying to tell me that I am going to waste my time by not stopping after getting my ASN. They say that getting your BSN just gets you management positions and that it does not pay more. I am going for my masters so I can be a CNM, so I have to have my BSN anyway but, how could it be true that a person with a BSN gets the same as a person with a ASN? (Aside from the fact that working in different dept can make a difference)

Specializes in Ante-Intra-Postpartum, Post Gyne.
I recently read the county community college district was looking into offering BSN degrees. There isn't much difference between ADN and BSN so it makes sense. I'd bet if there were more BSN slots many more would opt for the BSN.

A commuity college can not offer BSN degree, they do not offer courses for higher learning, by that I mean upper division (Jr. and Sr. courses)

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I've heard about the possibility of community colleges offering BSNs. To do so, they'd be collaborating with a university that was able to offer the upper division coursework, most likely on-site at the community college. I don't know how close to this actually happening is, though, or where... so this post isn't too informative, is it? : )

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Specializes in Ante-Intra-Postpartum, Post Gyne.
I've heard about the possibility of community colleges offering BSNs. To do so, they'd be collaborating with a university that was able to offer the upper division coursework, most likely on-site at the community college. I don't know how close to this actually happening is, though, or where... so this post isn't too informative, is it? : )

I could see where this would work if the CC was just used as a sight but the degree was still recieved throught the State or University College, and of course the price would still be at the State or University level.

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Specializes in Acute rehab/geriatrics/cardiac rehab.

Where I work I don't believe an individual is paid more for the BSN. I was accepted into an ADN and BSN program and chose the BSN only because it was closer to home. However, when I decided I wanted to go back to school (hospital nursing was stressing me out), I already had the BSN so I think it may have made it easier to to back to get my Masters Degree (though I know there are RN to MSN programs now).

Also, in the area I work in, a BSN is needed to be a community health nurse and many hospitals (including my own) advertise "BSN preferred", but they will not hesitate to hire someone with the ADN.

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Specializes in School Nursing.

Reply to jjjoy:

I got my BSN on the campus of our local community college. All the classes were taught by instructors from a local university and the degree was from there, they just "rented space" from the CC. Kind of llike a satelite campus I guess. It's very convienent because the CC is centrally located.

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Specializes in Oncology/Haemetology/HIV.
I've heard about the possibility of community colleges offering BSNs. To do so, they'd be collaborating with a university that was able to offer the upper division coursework, most likely on-site at the community college.

PCC/USF does this.

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Just a question to consider... would you mind if school teachers didn't need a college degree? Personally, I wouldn't mind if the teacher were good. I'd still want teacher training to be mandatory. But really, why would a teacher NEED a college degree to teach elementary school or basic subjects to older students?

I think we're in a time of great educational flux and there's no telling how it will all pan out in the long run.

Yes, I would mind if teachers did not need a college degree. What kind of message would that send to our children? If the educators don't even need degrees, what is the value of "education"? Also, it may seem that there is little to teaching basic subjects to children, but there is theory and science behind teaching. I want the people who are teaching my children, who are at very vulnerable stages in life, to be knowledgable and proficient. In order for this to be, there must be some sort of educational standard. All states have decided that this standard must be at least a bachelor's degree. Most states require teachers to go back for a master's degree after a certain number of years.

As important as I believe that the profession of teaching is, I also believe that nursing is an equally important profession with its own challenges and responsibilites. I fully support a move toward the BSN entry for nursing practice. With the move by other health professionals to increasing the entry for practice, we are losing even more respect.

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Studying the history of nursing was very interesting and also clarified why there are so many ways to become a nurse.

Practical Nurse (LPN/LVN) was brought about because of the U.S. government/military lack of available registered nurses; education is received through technical schools (traditionally); sits for NCLEX-PN

Diploma RN - the oldest method to RN; educated through programs associated with a hospital and not a college or university; these programs are being phased out (TN last diploma program closed in 2006); sits for NCLEX-RN

Associate RN (ADN/ASN) - educated through a 2 year program (usually a junior college) and was brought about (by forces outside the profession) due to a shortage of 4 year registered nurses; sits for NCLEX-RN

Bachelor RN (BSN) - educated through a 4 year college/university program; sits for NCLEX-RN

Did you know that Florence Nightingale was the first to call for nursing schools to be associated with colleges and universities and NOT hospitals?

I wonder what the discipline of medicine would look like today if it had as many outside forces manipulating the profession of Medicine?

One more thought...

True. There are various ways to become a nurse and multiple ways to become a registered nurse. But please do not discriminate against the new grad BSN due to 'lack of clinical experience'.

The discipline of Medicine expects (and treats) its new MDs to have limited clinical experience and accommodates the learning curve.

Nursing should have the same level of expectation and professionalism.

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Specializes in Surgical/MedSurg/Oncology/Hospice.
I could see where this would work if the CC was just used as a sight but the degree was still recieved throught the State or University College, and of course the price would still be at the State or University level.

My CC has a University Center on campus, from which we can take classes through various universities in the area to earn a Bachelor's Degree. I plan on getting my ADN, and then doing my RN-BSN at another local university that offers all of the RN-BSN theory classes online. Sure, I'd love to get my BSN right form the start but I'm in a situation where I need to start earning money ASAP (getting divorced/no job/ kids and I living with my folks), and I feel than working as an RN prior to getting my BSN should help me when I do the bridge program.

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Studying the history of nursing was very interesting and also clarified why there are so many ways to become a nurse.

Practical Nurse (LPN/LVN) was brought about because of the U.S. government/military lack of available registered nurses; education is received through technical schools (traditionally); sits for NCLEX-PN

Diploma RN - the oldest method to RN; educated through programs associated with a hospital and not a college or university; these programs are being phased out (TN last diploma program closed in 2006); sits for NCLEX-RN

Associate RN (ADN/ASN) - educated through a 2 year program (usually a junior college) and was brought about (by forces outside the profession) due to a shortage of 4 year registered nurses; sits for NCLEX-RN

Bachelor RN (BSN) - educated through a 4 year college/university program; sits for NCLEX-RN

Did you know that Florence Nightingale was the first to call for nursing schools to be associated with colleges and universities and NOT hospitals?

I wonder what the discipline of medicine would look like today if it had as many outside forces manipulating the profession of Medicine?

One more thought...

True. There are various ways to become a nurse and multiple ways to become a registered nurse. But please do not discriminate against the new grad BSN due to 'lack of clinical experience'.

The discipline of Medicine expects (and treats) its new MDs to have limited clinical experience and accommodates the learning curve.

Nursing should have the same level of expectation and professionalism.

BSN grads would be better served by requiring a six month to one year internship, that PTs, OTs, Pharmacists, and Dieticians go through. There is no reason for nurses to feel, that in order to be a "good nurse", they have to be able to "hit the ground running', the day after they graduate. This feeling has been the downfall of nurses. Are physicians expected to perform brain surgery, or heart transplants, the day after the graduate from medical school? I don't think so. And there is a good reason for this.

About twenty years ago, when DRGs hit health care, other licensed medical professionals decided to increase their educational levels. They opted to sacrifice clinical training during the length of the educational program, and substitued a post -graduate internship to bring new grads up to speed in their clinical skills in a controlled, guided environment.

Look at what they have accomplished- PTs and Pharmacists are now at a Doctorate Level, and OTs, Social Workers, are now at a Masters Level. They command far higher salaries that nurses in most states, control their profession, have people lined up to enter these program, but limit the number of students allowed in to these programs to protect the individuals who have already graduated. This keeps their number down, and the gradutes in high demand.

Compare this to nursing. We continue to have a 19th century level if education in the 21st century. We have the lowest level of education of all health care profesions. We are paid the LEAST of all health care professions. We also have new grads "lined up to enter the nursing programs", but we also have new grads, or recent new grads, running for the door within 2-4 years of graduating.

We in no way control our profession, and we are instead manipulated by outside forces who do not have our best interests in mind. We have no idea how to take control because we are not taught the necessary survival skills in school, because there is not enough time in either a diploma program, or a two year AA Degree. Other health care professionals learn these skills in school, because the school is long enough to accomdate these classes.

And who is brain washing us not to increase our educational levels? Hospital Administration, or course. Just follow the money. It boggles the mind that intelligent individuals, (and all nurses are intelligent, or they would not have had what it takes to get through a nursing program), fall for the nonsense that they spout at us.

Why do you think that they don't want nurses to increase their educational levels? Because they saw what happened with the above health care professionals, and it costs them more money to recruit, and retain them in the hospitals. They have far more satisfying, and better paying alternatives that hospital employment. When nurses leave the hospitals to work elsewhere, they usally take a 50% pay cut to have the convenience of less back breaking work, and better hours. Why? Because they were taught about other self- employment option, including being independant contractors, and starting their own businesses, rather than being employees.

Nursing has alot to learn, and grow, but it takes all of use to make the changes. WE have to come to the conclusion that short, two year programs ARE NOT in OUR best interests, or the nursing professions best interests. WE have to get on the same page as the other health care professions, and take control of the profession. JMHO, and my NY $0.02.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington

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Specializes in Oncology/Haemetology/HIV.

Is the horse dead yet???????????????????

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BSN grads would be better served by requiring a six month to one year internship, that PTs, OTs, Pharmacists, and Dieticians go through. There is no reason for nurses to feel, that in order to be a "good nurse", they have to be able to "hit the ground running', the day after they graduate. This feeling has been the downfall of nurses. Are physicians expected to perform brain surgery, or heart transplants, the day after the graduate from medical school? I don't think so. And there is a good reason for this.

:yeahthat:

Historically, with hospital-based diploma programs especially, student nurses were essentially working on the floor as nurses while still students. I don't know how much of the students' training was trial-by-fire and how much was formal education regarding physiology, pathophys, treatments, nursing care plans (by whatever name), etc. However, if they made it to graduation, they had already proven successfully functioning in their professional role.

Nursing education is very different these days. There is a lot more ground to cover in terms of science, treatments, specialties, etc. I do think it's valid to question exactly what is covered in nursing education and what will be left for nurses to learn on the job. I think it's important to consider what nursing roles should require additional special training and certification beyond the basic licensure.

There are so many different roles in nursing and so many different levels of care. And there is such a high demand for nurses in some shape or form, that I don't know if requiring ALL nurses to have bachelor's degree is necessarily the answer. I'm afraid that would just accelerate the trend of transferring more and more nursing tasks to UAPs (CMAs in nursing homes, school nurse techs instead of school nurses, etc). Maybe that's the direction some see nursing going with the bulk of non-acute nursing care going to UAPs as it's already trending... thus truly differentiating the "professional" nursing care of licensed personnel from the less skilled (though very important) nursing work of basic hygiene, passing routine meds, preventing bed sores in the chronically ill, etc.

A big question is if all RNs had a BSN and the opportunities afforded by that, wouldn't that just decrease the percentage of new graduate nurses entering bedside nursing? It seems to me that schools would have to graduate an even larger number of students in order to keep bedside jobs filled as well. That's a big difference between nursing and some other allied health fields. The sheer number of nurses employed by hospitals and facilities generally outnumbers other health professionals.

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