Pt's FB pictures of me

ixchel · Jan 31, 2014

If reading an obituary is some sort of violation surely there should be at least one example of this practice being banned or where someone was disciplined for doing so.[/quote'] This is complicated, though. If you read an obituary, you can't simply copy it and forward it to your friends instantaneously simply by snapping your fingers. Chances are, if you didn't scrapbook it in your "patients I've coded" portfolio like our BFF esme would, you probably would finish reading it, and stick it in the bottom of your bird cage, kindling or recycle bin. Social media has created the issue at hand. The problem didn't exist before because print media is harder to copy, duplicate and share, and you can't simply right click and search it for keywords. But print media is equally susceptible to the same abuses and policies.

MunoRN, RN · Jan 31, 2014

This is complicated, though. If you read an obituary, you can't simply copy it and forward it to your friends instantaneously simply by snapping your fingers. Chances are, if you didn't scrapbook it in your "patients I've coded" portfolio like our BFF esme would, you probably would finish reading it, and stick it in the bottom of your bird cage, kindling or recycle bin. Social media has created the issue at hand. The problem didn't exist before because print media is harder to copy, duplicate and share, and you can't simply right click and search it for keywords. But print media is equally susceptible to the same abuses and policies.

I haven't read an obituary in an actual newspaper for years, they are online now. They can be searched just like facebook, they can also forwarded which is how I now about many of them, my Hospital e-mails them to me. Should I report them?

ixchel · Jan 31, 2014

I haven't read an obituary in an actual newspaper for years they are online now. They can be searched just like facebook, they can also forwarded which is how I now about many of them, my Hospital e-mails them to me. Should I report them?[/quote']
You love splitting hairs, huh? lol If you feel like reporting them, perhaps you'll learn the answer to your question from a legal authority? I partly mean that in jest, but partly don't. I would be very curious to hear what happened if you did. I think that there could be an ethical boundary being crossed by someone intentionally searching for an obituary. However, do you know how the establishment got the obituary? Maybe a family member of the deceased shared it with them. I don't imagine there is a person at the hospital who searches the obituaries for former patients only to forward them along to staff. But I could see a thankful family member hoping to share the beauty of their family member's life with those who were involved with their care in their final moments. If a family member shares it with the hospital, then the hospital forwards it to the appropriate staff, that is completely different.

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Jan 31, 2014

That's great and all but doesn't refer to viewing publicly available information.

Birth pictures aren't public knowledge usually. Death notices are. While the pictures were posted "publicly" implying permission, downloading them to your personal device for personal usage is another matter. If the mother felt she thought they were private and never meant for them to be seen that can be a world of hassle for someone because she "assumed" (or wanted them private) they were private...now complains to the facility that a student contacted her for pictures of her baby...there will be hell to pay.

For me...not worth the potential hassle and as a student you are at the mercy of the school.

No one said one couldn't view the pictures, it's the downloading where the problem begins. If one wants a scrapbook of death notices (while creepy) or the picture of someone else's baby (also creepy....IMHO)...go ahead but keep your mouth shut. What is this obsession with the unrelenting sharing of personal information, my high schooler knows better.

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Jan 31, 2014

I haven't read an obituary in an actual newspaper for years, they are online now. They can be searched just like facebook, they can also forwarded which is how I know about many of them, my Hospital e-mails them to me. Should I report them?

No...the family posts and pays the news paper for them to be accessible to the general public and they sign a release for the news paper to print them.....in essence making the copyright of the paper.

ON a side note.....Your hospital e-mails you the obits of patients? They have far too much non-productive time on their hands. In 35 years in ALL the hospitals I have worked in I have NEVER had them send me obits by any means.

MunoRN, RN · Jan 31, 2014

Birth pictures aren't public knowledge usually. Death notices are. While the pictures were posted "publicly" implying permission, downloading them to your personal device for personal usage is another matter. If the mother felt she thought they were private and never meant for them to be seen that can be a world of hassle for someone because she "assumed" (or wanted them private) they were private...now complains to the facility that a student contacted her for pictures of her baby...there will be hell to pay.
For me...not worth the potential hassle and as a student you are at the mercy of the school.
No one said one couldn't view the pictures, it's the downloading where the problem begins. If one wants a scrapbook of death notices (while creepy) or the picture of someone else's baby (also creepy....IMHO)...go ahead but keep your mouth shut. What is this obsession with the unrelenting sharing of personal information, my high schooler knows better.

A Death itself is automatically public information, the biographical information in an obituary is not, it's something that is chosen to be shared, same as facebook.

Again I agree, and apparently so does the OP, that pictures with the baby go too far, we're talking about a picture of just her (the OP) and her dad, but mainly I'm referring to the broad claim that just viewing non-private facebook information is widely prohibited by policy, which doesn't appear to actually be the case.

MunoRN, RN · Jan 31, 2014

No...the family posts and pays the news paper for them to be accessible to the general public and they sign a release for the news paper to print them.....in essence making the copyright of the paper.

That is also exactly how it works with faceook.

ON a side note.....Your hospital e-mails you the obits of patients? They have far too much non-productive time on their hands. In 35 years in ALL the hospitals I have worked in I have NEVER had them send me obits by any means.

I've seen obits posted in every LTC staff break room I can think of and this isn't the only hospital I've worked at the distributed obits in one way or another. It's usually the obits that say "thanks to the Nurses at so-and-so".

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Jan 31, 2014

A Death itself is automatically public information, the biographical information in an obituary is not, it's something that is chosen to be shared, same as facebook.
Again I agree, and apparently so does the OP, that pictures with the baby go too far, we're talking about a picture of just her (the OP) and her dad, but mainly I'm referring to the broad claim that just viewing non-private facebook information is widely prohibited by policy, which doesn't appear to actually be the case.

No she was clear...pictures and donwloading to her phone

(There are pics of us with and without the baby.)
Is it a HIPAA violation if I click on the "..." and save these pictures to my phone since she made them public on Facebook (we are not FB friends. I searched for her.) I really want these pictures, but want to have them legitimately. Thanks!

Look to your hearts content.... it's when you start downloading and having her dad ask at the next appointment that I think someone will object to. No one can stop you from looking at home...look and keep your mouth shut...it's downloading them that is the issue. I wouldn't advertise looking up patients on FB but that is just me.

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Jan 31, 2014

That is also exactly how it works with faceook.
I've seen obits posted in every LTC staff break room I can think of and this isn't the only hospital I've worked at the distributed obits in one way or another. It's usually the obits that say "thanks to the Nurses at so-and-so".

Well they aren't posted in the ICU or the ER.

Facebook is "password protected" unlike a public newspaper and you sign a release of responsibility when you post a obit in the paper. Was her "intent" for them to be used for the general public to be downloaded to personal devices? Can the OP use her father to request permission from the patient during her 6 week check up without crossing professional boundaries? Is it with the possible hassle that may accompany this seemingly "innocent act" for personal gratification? I'm not so sure in the benefit versus risk category.

I view a newspaper ad taken out for public view differently than a password protected social media site. But the illusion of privacy today is just that...an illusion.

MunoRN, RN · Feb 1, 2014

No she was clear...pictures and donwloading to her phoneLook to your hearts content.... it's when you start downloading and having her dad ask at the next appointment that I think someone will object to. No one can stop you from looking at home...look and keep your mouth shut...it's downloading them that is the issue. I wouldn't advertise looking up patients on FB but that is just me.

I don't disagree that there is a potential problem with downloading a picture with the baby in it and it appears the OP agreed:

So do you think that a picture of my dad and me (no baby, no pt info, literally 2 people in scrubs standing against a blank wall) that she posted to her public Facebook page is protected by HIPAA?
Oh, how I wish I had addressed this issue the other day, but it didn't even occur to me at the time.

The main issue I've been trying to get someone to clarify or support is the assertion that just looking, facebook, obituary, whatever, is generally prohibited by social media policies.

MunoRN, RN · Feb 1, 2014

Well they aren't posted in the ICU or the ER.

I am referring to the ICU.

Facebook is "password protected" unlike a public newspaper and you sign a release of responsibility when you post a obit in the paper. Was her "intent" for them to be used for the general public to be downloaded to personal devices? Can the OP use her father to request permission from the patient during her 6 week check up without crossing professional boundaries? Is it with the possible hassle that may accompany this seemingly "innocent act" for personal gratification? I'm not so sure in the benefit versus risk category.
I view a newspaper ad taken out for public view differently than a password protected social media site. But the illusion of privacy today is just that...an illusion.

Facebook actually isn't "password protected" just like an obituary, anyone can look up someone on facebook and view their information, photos, etc unless they make such information private. You also agree to Facebook's terms and conditions which reminds you that information is public but that anything you post, including pictures, are available for public use including downloading.

I agree that she probably shouldn't contact the patient, although that's not necessary to view or even download a photo of herself and her dad.

Do you view the obituary as being different just because in it's a newspaper? Do you see it as being significantly to read the obituary online vs in an an actual paper?

jadelpn, LPN, EMT-B · Feb 1, 2014

We could debate this until the cows come home, and it remains the case that in fact in the privacy of one's own home, one can do whatever they would like to.

However, it is my opinion that a line is crossed when a nurse, a nursing student, or anyone who only knows someone's name and/or situation (ie: giving birth) through a facility then is looking them up on social media. To complicate the matter, then asking for pictures (or anything else) from them. Someone's name is PHI unless they sign consent otherwise, then it is limited.

This is much like nurse or nursing student being asked out on a date from a patient. Or a patient "friending" a nurse. And a case of personal/professional boundry crossing.