MacNinni123

I bet the nurse questioning degee preference for supervisorship is a brand, spanking new BSN. What do you bet? I'll never forget when I was in my ADN nursing program many...many...moons ago, I went for one of my clinicals and discovered the two supervising nurses on the postpartum floor were both LPNs, They were, with out a doubt, the BEST supervisors I EVER worked under. Both had worked that floor for 30 years and knew everything there was to know about their specialty. Experience, OP, is what counts. To begin with, LPNs get far more of it right from the get go while in school. The rest of us too often get it by baptism by fire...especially the higher the degree grade. The higher the degree, the more time is spent in class...not at the bedside. And, when one gets to begin their hospital career, too often they find their "mentor" is just too darn busy to help much. Never underestimate the knowledge of the LPN, ADN, and on up. Pay attention to their experiences.

IF Ms. Vaught is truly "a passionate advocate for safety and improvement," why does she not spend her time doing just that, for free, telling her story, making her mistakes known, fighting for safe warning and placement of meds by pharmacies, etc., instead of attempting to regain licensure. I can't imagine why ...after causing the death of a patient...anyone would want to practice again.

Good for you! It does not change the fact that nursing and telephone operating are female-dominated professions...right? But, it would be interesting to know if you have run into other male nurses who can be as spiteful as women can. I do not know why it is...but it is. Especially with the nurses who move into administration. I loved nursing...I loved the patients, and I worked with many wonderful, giving, caring nurses...female and male. However, the situation we speak of exists...and it exists in female-dominated workplaces.

RN Summer Seas makes an excellent observation. Unfortunately, what she says is true. However, again unfortunately, it is not just nursing in which this occurs. Many, many years ago...before I became a nurse...I was a telephone operator...another female dominated field. The atmosphere was the same. Women do this to each other...why? I do not know.

I agree...my point exactly. Otherwise there IS time to follow the safety rule.

Yes...and if it must be that quick...we have crash carts...

The solution is to take all the steps necessary to assure the safety of the patient,

Several years ago, we had a fire at out facility and all patients in that area were moved to an armory where we practiced MASH nursing for a couple of weeks. No problem.

Not where I practiced ...from Maine to Florida...if over-ride was necessary, one picked up the phone, called pharmacy, and did it together.

I never disagreed with anyone. I simply said the information I received was not enough to base a decision upon.

Wow! I simply posted on what All Nurses presented in its email to me...and clearly said so.

To Klone and any others who wondered what happene-rid to me. I'm still here...but gave up trying to explain myself once I realized no one was paying attention to what I said. Once more...I read ONLY the email from All Nurses giving the background to the story...which did NOT include all the rest of the stuff ad nauseum (as it was described). And, yes ad nauseum has been overused, too. I simply said that the error was egregious...someone died. However, from what I read which is ONLY what All Nurses included in my email...there wasn't enough info to make a decision. As far as the over-ride issue...yes they may be done but ONLY in sync with the pharmacy. The impression I have from recent comments is that is not the case. I don't KNOW whether she should get her license back from what info I have read. I am way up here in Maine...nowhere near where all this occurred. I have not seen the reams of info spoken of here. That is all folks!

The fact that she didn't read the label is another piece of info missing from the All Nurses query I see.

So, the meds were allowed to be pulled "the wrong way." Enough said.

There may be a lot of information of which you are aware, and that you may have written of before, but I am only seeing the question and background offered within an All Nurses query. I see nothing about Vaught's background, nor do I see that hospital policy required observation after the med was given. To the contrary, all I have seen is a remark that the hospital does NOT require observation. I see that over-ride is allowed by nurses, which it should not be. Only pharmacists should be allowed to do that. Therefore, from my perspective, there is not enough information to make a decision on Vaught's ability to regain her license.

Talked about? Completed? How? Are over-rides still being allowed, encouraged? Over-rides should only be done by the pharmacist.

We do not have enough information to know if Vaught is a "scapegoat" or not. We do know she gave the wrong medication. We also know she used over-ride, which should not be accomplished by any one but the pharmacist. So, if the hospital, as you say allowed that, it in the least is an accomplice in an egregious death. The bottom line here is...we do not have enough information to make a decision on Vaught.

I am not surprised at your reply. I expected it from someone. However, I am not making any excuses for any body...nurse or hospital. You have been a nurse for a long time. You have seen what I expressed here. We do not know what Vaught's performance has been like up until this horrible event. IF there have not been other issues, or for any reason other issues would be expected, should a nurse's training and experience be wasted forever? Should any person ever be forgiven and allowed another opportunity if they make a mistake? I reiterate...there is not enough information here to make that decision. Never forget...any one of us can make a mistake. We are human. If Vaught's career has been sprinkled with poor decisions, then absolutely she should not be allowed to return.

Retired oncology nurse here. I do not believe there is enough information here to make a decision on RaDonda Vaught. Her med error certainly is egregious...the patient died. However, the nursing climate is...and has been...for quite some time, unhealthy for both patients and nurses. Perhaps, because of the stress of rushing from one assignment to the next as a "help-all" nurse, Vaught lost her way and her brain became muddled...allowing her to make such a horrible error. Nursing shortages have caused too many such errors. The hospital obviously needed a "help-all" and such nurses are often over-whelmed with varied duties. The hospital policy also did not include assuring the nurse would monitor after the injection of versed. The pyxis over-ride is certainly not a good thing either. That should be done only by a pharmacist. Had that been the case, the mistaken med surely would have been identified. Unfortunately, hospital nursing is, and has been, fraught with ability for mistakes to occur. It is not Covid that has brought to light all its frailties...they have been there for decades...Covid has simply exposed them all. Vaught's error will never leave her mind. The patient's family will never receive peace from her error. It is highly unlikely that she will ever have a med error again...unless there is more to this story than we know about her performance over the years. Laxity within hospital policies and care assist in the commission of these errors. Both Vaught and the hospital are accountable. But should she never be allowed to practice again? I still am unsure because we do not have enough information here to make that decision.

It's great that you take your positions seriously....however, I can assure you your situation is not par for the course. I have worked several hospitals and seen over and over how little the unions have done for employees. I am now a 76-year-old retired R.N. I have worked up and down the East Coast at many institutions.

Absolutely! I have a nurse friend who works at a large city hospital.....it has more than 10 CEOs. EACH receives a million dollars a year in bonuses. Nurses with seniority ....and therefore larger paychecks....are being forced out. Inexperienced nurses are being hired...therefore with smaller paychecks. Never are enough nurses being hired, and as the older nurses leave, the newer nurses lose any mentors they may have had. Dangerous for both patients and nurses. Oh...and, yes, they do have a union.....which does nothing for the nurses and ancillary personnel. The union heads are enjoying nice, big checks, too. The hospital administrators and the union bosses are in bed together.

Absolutely! I have a nurse friend who works at a large city hospital.....it has more than 10 CEOs. EACH receives a million dollars a year in bonuses. Nurses with seniority ....and therefore larger paychecks....are being forced out. Inexperienced nurses are being hired...therefore with smaller paychecks. Never are enough nurses being hired, and as the older nurses leave, the newer nurses lose any mentors they may have had. Dangerous for both patients and nurses. Oh...and, yes, they do have a union.....which does nothing for the nurses and ancillary personnel. The union heads are enjoying nice, big checks, too. The hospital administrators and the union bosses are in bed together.

This is nothing new. It is no different than use of morphine to control pain in terminally ill patients...which, at the same time eases them on to expiration. The article says all the patients' families had asked that no further lifesaving measures be taken. Should they be left to suffer painful deaths? IF any nurse did not want to give the doses ordered, he or she does not have to do so. As an oncology R.N., there were times when I refused to give certain drugs and doses. I was never fired or reprimanded. Nurses have the right to refuse to give treatments that they believe are not correct. Not only do they have that right, they have that duty.

Acuity should be the greatest determiner of staffing ratios. Experience is also extremely important. Therefore, the ratios can be different every day, every shift, and for every nurse. The nurse/patient ratio is a good start, but it sure takes more than that to keep patients...and nurses...safe. The CEO's opinion is useless. He simply is trying to keep his salary, benefits and bonuses way, way up there, while nurses and ancillary staff (of whom are becoming fewer and fewer) do the drudge work. The correct number of nurses per patients does save lives. Specialized care always does. And, that is what we should be giving. Nursing breaks (whenever one is fortunate enough to get one) are worrisome. The covering nurse and the combined patients are in danger during those times. We who have staffed the floors KNOW what truly happens. Is is frightening. Once, I was on Tele with 13 patients to care for. When I called the supervisor for help, she asked what I wanted her to do. I responded that I wanted her to help me. She turned her back on me and walked away. That was the straw for me. I quit, and went to work for an agency, doing pediatric home care. One little patient at a time.

My daughter had a port installed about 3 months ago, which has not been right since the beginning. Blood return happened easily only once...the first access. Since then, she has had to do the dance, or had tpa instilled. Fluoroscope revealed a tiny clot at the top back of the port. Her arm has been swelling terribly with each infusion (yes, port is on the left) and her left hand becomes almost unusable. Both lower extremities are edematous, also, with the right one being the worst. She must spend most of her time lying down, with L arm and bil legs ups on pillows to keep it under control. She has one more infusion, and then the port is coming out. Docs are not happy she is insisting on having it removed, because she still has more chemo -- a lot more --- to get. She's been having Taxol and Herceptin weekly for a total of 12 weeks. Next she will get Herceptin alone weekly, for six weeks, along with daily radiation txs. Then, she will receive Herceptin every 3 weeks, until next May, for a total of a year's tx. I am a retired oncology nurse; have not practiced for five or six years, and, in fact, Herceptin is new to me. But, with all the rounds if chemo I infused via ports, I never had a patient with the kind of swelling my daughter is enduring. Since, the second infusion, when a blood return was difficult - and, because the area was swollen and very sensitive to the touch -- I have felt the port was incorrectly placed. Docs rejected removing and replacing, however, and encouraged her to continue, claiming all is well. And, even now, after she has demanded the port come out after the next infusion, the docs want her to keep that port. I can't imagine her suffering through nine more months with it (she is miserable), yet I find myself walking a fine line here when she asks my advice. She needs to complete the tx. The docs tell her she may not be able to finish the tx without the port, because she has had so much edema in the L arm that a good vein may not be found to continue IVF. They cannot use her right arm as the lymph nodes were removed there. She is asking my advice. I am very concerned about the clot and the edema. Yet, I am also concerned about her having to stop treatment. I am also a breast ca survivor x2. I had chemo and radiation the first time around in 1985, but it was a totally different tx than she is receiving now. Nineteen years later I had a mastectomy, although it was a new and different ca of the same breast. The first time around, I was not an R.N. My survival encouraged me to become an oncology nurse. So, the second time around, I was one and knew a little more. But, now a few years out of practice, I am bewildered....and, it is my daughter.....somehow, this is harder to face than my own cancers. Any thoughts are appreciated.