Professional dilemma

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I work as an agency nurse in UK as a PACU or recovery nurse. Most hospitals have a policy that we are not allowed to give ANY intravenous medication to our patients with or without a skills certificate. I do not have the certificate but have been a nurse since 1986 and at the present hospital I have been giving IV medication until recently when we were told to follow the policy and refrain from IV meds.

My patient was vomiting and I left a student with the patient after reassuring her and located the Dr who ordered an IV anti emetic which I gave. The patient seemed sensitive to the drug which I stopped and when back to tell him and he ordered an IM anti emetic which I also gave and it helped.

A few days later my manager shows me a letter from a colleague, who had an intubated patient BEHIND a closed screen, that detailed me giving IV medication fully knowing that it was against the rules. I was a bit annoyed and shocked at the idea that someone would feel the need to forget that nursing is a caring profession and it is OK to be vindictive towards co workers. A few days before the letter came up, another patient was vomiting and very distressed and it took about 5minutes of running around for them to find someone with a IV certificate to give when we were all very skilled AND capable to do and in the end they dragged an anaesthetist out of theatre to give the IV dose.

A professional and personal dilemma....any views appreciated

Specializes in ICU,ANTICOAG,ACUTE STROKE,EDU,RESEARCH.

A few facts

ODPs cannot follow PGDs even though they are registered as HCPs

Doctors in the UK do give orders.

Prescription is a written order to administer a drug. When it's a verbal communication then it becomes an order.

Other examples would be orders to extubate, wean ventilation, remove a drain etc etc etc

As regards " publicly stating that you didn't follow protocol" I say good call.

It' a ridiculous rule which compromises patient care and must put great pressure on the ANaesthetists, unit managers and permanent staff.

Now are the members who are making the OP out to be a "bad nurse" aware that Doctors don't always follow the rules?

THey often make a professional, informed decision (which should always be in the patients best interest) to deviate from the rules.

Take for example the use of Diprivan (Propofol) for sedation in ventilated patients in ICU . For years it was prescribed for sedation OUTSIDE THE LICENSE .

Another example was several Doctors in the UK who for several years were administering rTpa to thrombolyse acute stroke patients when it wasn't licensed for that use.

We aren't , as professionals, meant to follow rules and regulations to the word.

Read the professional code of conduct here

http://www.nmc-uk.org/Nurses-

and-midwives/The-code/The-code-in-full/#standard

Especially the first sentence and the accountability advise .

Specializes in Spinal Cord injuries, Emergency+EMS.
A few facts

Doctors in the UK do give orders.

No they don't

as in you cannot be disciplined for not following a 'doctor's order' and the fact that something was in a plan of care or a prescription is not a defence if you break the rules ...

consequently they are not 'orders'.

thanx....I am a nurse not and ODP....the prescription was already written down and he said to give it on his behalf as he could not leave his unconscious patient...i had been giving iv's for the past year and a half in the unit with a prescription and no doctors orders....

this policy that no agency nurse is to give iv's has never been shown or verbalised until a few months ago AND even then we were allowed to breach it when the need arose...with not even the manager making a report...she saw us dilute and administer the drugs...and why was i not roped over the coals then...

when a petty part timer complains about the fact they try to make me to look bad..i am having none of it and i will make big fuss about the fact that from the senior matrons and managers saw me administer iv from the day i walked into the hospital and no one made any reference to that fact...

whether the issue was raised to months or 2 weeks ago...i did it for the patient and that was the final answer...no care was compromised in the process... and that was never in doubt...

many drs never follow the rules but we never complain about them...its accepted and laughed about...but we who do the hard graft have to watch our backs from spiteful co workers who might have a different view of the nursing profession they joined....i go to work to care for patients and not bother who is watching what i do...then i might as well go into the corporate world...its almost dog eat dog in nursing in some hospitals...and its so sad we dont care about patients but a bed number or space...

my manager was meant to speak to me today about a decision but she left early...without informing me...how do you think i should feel...so there you go...still wondering why i took the placement or stayed this long enough to possibly leave with a tarnished rep for no good reason...which i will try to fight...if i go down i will take a few with me...let me fight like them too...:-)

Specializes in Hospice / Psych / RNAC.

One day a doctor tried to take a manual blood gas from the patient while i held his hand. She tried twice and so i said may i do it. We were both S African and i was a bit annoyed she let the side down as i withdrew the sample without much fuss. Thats experience for you and no certificate needed. But i am not boasting just to make a point that some agency nurse skills are lost in the policies of various hospitals but some are very happy to do little and get a lot of money.

I have the experience and competency to perform my duties

What does being S African have to do with manual blood gases?

Specializes in Spinal Cord injuries, Emergency+EMS.
What does being S African have to do with manual blood gases?

precisely nothing , except it appears the OP considers her nationality and hours of work makes her exempt from the rules... ( cynical ? moi?)

Like a true professional I am not going to respond to that statement...but I will add that a one spiteful petty UK nurse, among many, who always seem to have a chip on their shoulder when a more experienced foreigner enters their unit. I am not there to prove a point but to nurse a patient and I just happen to be from SA, and to be honest most foreign nurses do come better experienced and qualified to work here but are treated like second rate staff. But that I will not go into.

Just to make a point about the IV policy - a newly qualified UK nurse who worked in the community setting joined the PACU team as a permanent member. She was giving IV morphine to a patient and yet comes over to me to put up a litre of IV fluids. 'cos she is not allowed to give IV's' ...that very patient required the IV fluids because the nurse was not giving her the required oxygen post extubation and started giving her the morphine with the mask lying next to the patient and so the patient started going into a deeper sleep and the blood pressure dropped which was not high in the first place. And when i tried to teach anything..she blew me off with mindless answers and so i gave up...

Now go figure that one...and i will close this subject...but if you want i could always list the differences between the experience and training of a UK and foreign nurse and why many of us are here for some reason or the other and NOT to prove we are better nurses...which we undoubtedly are...

off to cycle before work..have a nice day everyone

Now that the cycle has cleared my head...:-)...why not make a last point...being S African and taking a blood gas had nothing to do with the issue...but if I was a petty spiteful UK nurse, with less experience and probably a chip on my shoulder...in all my 12yrs year I could have reported a whole lot of UK nurses who had no idea what they were doing...but it is your country and mismanaged wards....and I am meant to bow to your rules...well some of them when it pleases them and me...

- the A+E certificated sister who could not insert an NG tube

- the certificated ward manager who could not take bloods

- the private locum Dr who said she had never catheterised an 80yr old woman

-guess who did all three ?...i will not boast but hey...why not

- the 2nd year student nurse who did not know what a mastectomy was - PACU placement

- a different second year student who did not know what an extremity was - PACU placement

- most UK students cannot spell and there cannot pronounce long and most medical terms

- most UK students have no clue of the human anatomy and systems

- but we have to teach then how to extubate patients when they do not even know alveoli exist

Do not get me started....but i will have no further response to country assassinations from miss UK...well i will try not to...:-)

Specializes in Medical and general practice now LTC.

Been following this thread and I feel as if you are saying it is OK to ignore rules and local policies.

Policies are there for a reason and no matter how much we don't agree with them we shouldn't be ignoring them. I am sure the NMC will say something if you end up in front of them and your opening statement was "I ignored policy because it is stupid and I know I can do it and therefore did it."

Yes we are accountable to our actions therefore we are accountable when we ignore policy and action something we know is against policy.

Yes UK students miss out on some skills but I bet this isn't just restricted to nurse training in the UK I bet people working in other countries can say the same when they have come across things

Specializes in Advanced Practice, surgery.

Do not get me started....but i will have no further response to country assassinations from miss UK...well i will try not to...:-)

I think you'll find ZippyGBR is an overseas trained nurse.

Reading through some of your posts I have to wonder if the permanent staff are actually reacting to how you interact with them. You seem to have a great deal of disdain for UK trained nurses and students is it possible that this comes across in your practice.

As far as the situation you began with, you don't know why the policy is now being enforced. I have worked very closely with clinical governance units and my guess would be it is in response to increased incidents from agency staff, and they are within their rights to do so. You don't have to agree but you do have to abide by hospital policy otherwise you are an unacceptable liability to the hospital.

As I said previously, I would be reluctant to let you return to my unit if you blatantly disregarded policy, but then agency staff where I work are clear to the expectations of their practice and no area would have unsupervised agency staff - it's just not safe because you can't guarantee the quality or abilities if temporary staff.

Let me repeat....the policy was in place when i entered the first recovery unit..there are 4...and in every single one i was giving IV care..in front of every single manager and senior in those units...no one mentioned an iv policy for agency nurses at any time and that it needed to be followed...as the agency told me before i started THEY ARE OK IF I AM COMPETENT TO GIVE IV MEDS.

so for 1 year 6months i gave iv without being stopped and supervised...it was expected for the patient came first...then suddenly the policy issue is raised and even after that when there was no one to give IV meds i was called upon in front of the present manager who never said a word, no one complained or wrote a report..the patient came first..

so when some 2 day part time spiteful and petty worker...wont call her a nurse..has an issue with me giving IV as a direct order from the Dr..which she knew nothing about..and i had a distressed vomiting patient on my hands...i had without thinking of a policy saw that my patient was cared for...in all the other instances...when i had ample time to think of a policy...no one mentioned the fact i was not meant to be doing iv's..

cos there was no one around to do it...or it would mean searching for someone and taking them away from their duty...for the record...i do not disobey rules or would not have been a nurse since 1986...and an agency nurse since 1998...i work for the patient and they come first...a nurses attitude second...

i have no disdain for anyone...dspite the treatment we get from full time staff...you can never be too nice too friendly too competent as an agency nurse...they will never accept you...but i will not stay in a place i am not happy in and as much as i know the students are depreived of proper training i do my best to teach them but yet again they are told by the permanent staff, in this placement that agency nurses are not allowed to teach them...and that came from a UK nurse by the way...since we going to country bash for a minute..

i did what was good for the patient...for over a year i followed my nursing initiative and in the presvious hospitals their policies from day one and they never wavered from day to day...or when it suited the unit...

they may have implemented and mentioned the policy but i am still going to say that it was not a willful disregard of the policy and was never intended but an immediate response to patient care...

if you going to pin this on me then pin the past year and a half on me as well...so when did i become a bad nurse...

Specializes in Advanced Practice, surgery.

i have no disdain for anyone...dspite the treatment we get from full time staff...you can never be too nice too friendly too competent as an agency nurse...they will never accept you...but i will not stay in a place i am not happy in and as much as i know the students are depreived of proper training i do my best to teach them but yet again they are told by the permanent staff, in this placement that agency nurses are not allowed to teach them...and that came from a UK nurse by the way...since we going to country bash for a minute..

The only person country bashing so far is you, no other poster has mentioned nationality.

if you going to pin this on me then pin the past year and a half on me as well...so when did i become a bad nurse...

In your first post you say

I have been giving IV medication until recently when we were told to follow the policy and refrain from IV meds.

You were told to refrain from giving IV, you don't know the safety rationale behind that and you ignored it. However you dress it up you did something you were told not to. There must have been safety concerns for such a instruction to be given. Even if you were a substantive member of staff, and you failed to follow instructions or policy you would be treated the same way.

I wonder if you would find it helpful to do a written reflection on the incident and maybe consider the rationale for such directives in a balanced and considered manner maybe it'll help you see both sides of the situation (yours as the frustrated and restricted nurse and the organisation from a safety and risk management perspective). Within that it may be worth looking at error theory, risk reduction, medication errors and the use of temporary staff. It could help take some of the emotion out of the situation and aid a more balanced view.

I understand it fully...i refuse to look like a bad nurse over the incident and the management admit they are partly to blame for the lax execution of rules...

and limply implement them when it suits them...but a lesson learnt for the future...work less get paid more and take longer holidays...:-)

night night

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