Problem applying nclex in california

sallyp911 · Mar 7, 2012

Yes, you will find a ton of information under the "WORLD" title bar above. You will see many overseas applicants since 2010 are not able to take the exam at all. There is also discussion of the CA BON possibly disallowing the renewal of many overseas RN's already working in the States due to an existing rules/regulations since 2003. It is NOT a new requirement, nothing has been added or changed, just a very strict enforcement of a near decade rules.

I am a non-Filpina myself, but helping a good friend from there to get the ATT, if possible. She and along with just about every new grad and even experienced overseas RN's are now unable to get their CA license or even apply for licensure. This is also affecting a lot of nurse from the UK and some other European countries as well the Phillipines. So yes, their BSN degrees of 4 years is not being honored nor accepted by the CA BON.

The CA BON is now enforcing a previous requirement for all and any applicants worldwide as well as domestically and nationwide here. Even any and all Excelsior College USA grads from those getting their degree since Jan. 2007 are not eligible to get OR endorse their RN license into CA any more, even if those US RN's have been employed since 2007.

http://www.rn.ca.gov/pdfs/forms/excelsiornewsrelease.pdf

http://www.rn.ca.gov/pdfs/forms/excelsiorcourtdecision.pdf

There are TWO glaring issues that is causing the problems: the clinical and theory sections were not taken concurently AND/OR not enough med-surg hours.

The problem is trying to find a CA college that will allow you to take only those two missing minimum requirements without taking the entire courses. I could go on, but you might want to re-post your question in the International section and search the various topics there. Good luck!

NurseCubanitaRN2b, BSN, RN · Mar 7, 2012

You can use Nevada in order to gain licensure but good luck trying to endorse your license back into CA because you will run into the same problem. What you may want to find out is if the courses that are in question are required by CA nursing students to complete. If they aren't required by CA nursing students and in fact it's beyond CA nursing student requirements you may want to ask the BRN "WHY IS IT THAT THIS IS AN ISSUE IF CA NURSING STUDENTS DON'T HAVE TO COMPLETE THIS REQUIREMENT FOR AN ASSOCIATES DEGREE?" Just a thought. Good Luck

rahani05 · Mar 10, 2012

hi, im a Filipina too and I just got my mail today from California BON that says the same thing "that they determined that not all aspect of my theory and clinical training meet the requirements in medical surgical and obstetrics. And reflects that some and/or all clinical cases were not completed during the same semester." So how did u resolve it?I'm really disappointed about this. Hoping for your reply. thank you and God bless!

jrmRN · Mar 12, 2012

Thank you for your suggestions!

jrmRN · Mar 12, 2012

rahani05- how can i contact you?

baynurse650 · Mar 15, 2012

just forwarding with xxryu139xx wrote last feb 27, hope it helps:

i hate to be the pessimistic one here, but california recently changed their policy as far as foreign nurses go. they are requiring that clinicals and lectures be taken concurrently (during the same semester). in the philippines, our curriculum is much different in the way it is structured and they are "questioning" it now.

a few of my batchmates (2010) are now having problems in getting an att via california. they are even asking for the list of major/minor/delivery cases that we performed. why would they need such a thing when american curriculums won't even let student nurses perform actual assists in the or? i applied for my att around this time last year and i managed to get my att and now a california rn license holder. with the same curriculum and credentials, why are my batchmates being denied?

the real answer is california is being discriminatory vs foreign nurses, if not only philippine-trained nurses. one can wonder why. is it because the job market is despicable now that the california nursing field is saturated with unemployed nurses, both american and foreign trained? are they trying to limit the influx of foreign nurses into california in order for american nurses to get placed first?

ca bon's only solution for the "curriculum shortcomings" is to go back to school in california to fulfill the discrepancies. if the discrepancies are about concurrence, then that means u basically have to take all your ncm lectures and clinicals all over again. oh and if the job market is hard to get into, getting into nursing school esp for a bsn is much more difficult. schools only take a few hundred or less students at a time.

my batchmates have explored this situation very much. we thought that perhaps going through another state (all other 49 states are less stringent) and applying for reciprocity to california will be the easiest solution. if you look at the licensure for reciprocity/endorsement, they are still requiring that u send ur complete transcript and letter from the school, very much like the requirements for licensure by examination in california. basically this means, they can still deny your licensure for reciprocity to california on the grounds that your foreign nursing education is still not good enough for a california license on the grounds that your clinicals and lectures were not concurrent. if you compare this to nj's licensure for endorsement requirements, nj only requires you to send 1. their fee, 2. verification of license from original state, 3. fingerprints, and 4. application. i got my nj license with no questions asked. i'm sure the other 48 states require about the same as nj.

the concept is the nclex is a nationally accepted nursing licensure exam. it means if u take your nclex in nj, it should be good enough for all the other 49 states. but apparently, california can still decline your application. if your target state is california, you are pretty much screwed. if you're already in california, you can try moving to another neighboring state. if you are planning to come to the us, save your money and apply to another state. ny does not require a ssn, but it takes a long time (6+months) to get processed. some other states are quicker.

just a little eye opener for all you would be california nclex applicants.

nursegirl75 · Mar 15, 2012

I was just wondering why are many foreign nurses coming to California? I'm just asking because for the past 5 years, California has been one of the worst hit states in terms of job opportunities especially in nursing. Just curious that's all.

BennyRNCA · Mar 15, 2012

To baynurse650: there's a recent posting from the International section by a affected overseas applicant, that can answer you much better and please don't play the "race card", you'll see that the same exact situation is happening to all CA and any Excelsior USA based colleges going back to 2006, it is NOT a recent development you speak of.

Here's the posting:

Hi, to all my fellow kabayans out there! I have been following these topics for almost a year now and so saddened by the current state of affairs that has been troubling all of us in dealing with the issues with the CA BON.

I too along with several of my batchmates with either having the same concurrency problem or not enough hours in those certain courses to satisfy the CA BON requirements. Even their friends from other Phils colleges are in the same boat and everyone trying to get their ATT, some having been denied twice, told that to meet the minimum requirements going to a US approved college will help get us thru, etc.

From all my readings here on this site, who is to blame in this crisis we are all facing?

-- The CA BON? NO, we are in their territory, we have to meet their requirements, their rules, their regulations, their minimums. So many of our batchmates and their friends have been reapplying twice or more times or not even having to be able to get a chance to take the NCLEX exam.

-- The CA evaluators/analyst? NO, they are only doing their job. They must also enforce and apply the same rules/regulations to not only us but to any applicants, be they from a local to other states to other overseas countries) wanting to get licensed in CA. If, not, then they could lose their jobs and in this economy, it would be very hard to find another type of job they have working with the CA BON and still put food on the table or pay for the lights in their living places.

-- CA rules and regulations? NO, it's been there for many years from my understanding in other posts here, we're not going to change their rules or requirements. There has been NO recent changes or additions to their requirements, only the current enforcement of the ones already in place for years. There's no reason for them to accomodate us and with understanding as there's no longer any more nursing shortage in CA or in 99% of the US. Too many US unemployed nurses everywhere and very little available job openings that doesn't need experience and more so, if so many of us are new grads.

On another note: one of my friend's has a good family member who is from Phils and a practicing CA lawyer for over 16 years, he is not an employment nor labor attorney, he is in business and taxation ligitation, but as a favor to her, he was asked about the CA BON denial letters received of the concurrence and insufficient hours requirements, after several months of inquiries and investigation, it was of his professional opinion, that the CA BON stands correct in their position and that legally, we "don't have any legal grounds to stand on". The advice of either trying to find some kind of remedial classes or re-taking of a complete CA approved nursing program is the best and main option open to us affected. He also finds it very suspicious of those applicants getting their ATT and others being denied from the same batchmates, same schooling, same instructors and could result in future legal action taken against them for "knowingly and willfully submitting false information" to the CA BON, even if the RN licensee claims he/she didn't know it was not the truth. There is NO limitation that the CA BON could revoke or suspend the CA license even if endorsed to another state. What is worst is if other state has severe financial or other penalties, they can enforce it and could be much worse than in CA.

So who is to BLAME?

-- Our own colleges and universities? YES, a definite yes! I have a very good and reliable source from one of our batchmate's relative/father who is very well associated to the CHED. They (CHED) have always known of these same minimum CA BON requirements for many years. But they have always thought that why fix our own country's nursing management and philisophies if it's not broken and we're not obligated to our Phils to move on to the US, even though, it's understood there's a very high percentage will be leaving Phils and mostly to CA, but that's their problem, not ours. Well, it is now! It's now insane to attend a Phils college if anyone today wants to get a nursing job in CA.

They never imagined that one day the CA BON would clamp down on their requirements. It was always preached to them (not from the US side, but from so many of the members of the CHED) that with the nursing shortages in CA and all over the States, they could keep teaching new nurses to meet the growing demand in the States. However, it's been a real problem in the States since 2009, but CHED didn't want to believe that or did believe it but wanted to keep the process going and why alert the students already enrolled and wanting to enroll, maybe the problem will be washed away.

-- Ourselves? YES and no. We should have known that even though, many of the Phils are accredited and some are even ISO-certified, but it means nothing to the outside of the walls of the Phils borders. Yes, it's true that we are just poor students studying hard every day and night, having so much stress and worries for 4 years, finding ways to pay for our education, our families making the tough sacrifices both emotionally and financially, giving up many good times that our other non-nursing friends enjoyed, but figured it will be worth the long sacrifices once we get a job in the States.

-- Global recession? YES. From what we read in the other topics here, many of the older US nurses cannot afford to quit their jobs now due to so many have lost so much money in their retirement banks, many nurses have to come back to work and reactive their US license so they can make more money either due to their own spouses are unemployed or have had some changes in their lives and need to come up with some extra money, so in all of this, many are not leaving their jobs or have refilled them and leaves no more empty spots to be filled. With the US unemployment rate so high, many cannot longer afford the health insurance or have lost it completely and much less patients coming in to see a doctor, so many sick people and their family members don't have the financial means to pay for the medical cost, which in turn, helps to pay the nurses.

So guys, we can no longer depend on getting a license in CA or in other states that are affected by this, much less find a good job in the States like years before. My batchmates and many others we know are being more realistic now and understand we just need to pack up, move on and find some other states to apply into or even other countries. Maybe there still might be a few of us that will get pass and be able to pass the NCLEX the first time in CA. We are all tired from getting those rejection letters!

Some of my batchmates have heard that other US states may soon do what the CA BON has been enforcing, if it is already the other state's requirements, which is only going to squueze all of us into a tighter area.

Solution(s):

-- I don't have any of the immediate problems, maybe others do here?

-- I think once the US economy does get better one of these years, we'll hopefully be employed in the other states and able to come back to CA (which honestly is about another high percentage of Phils grads wanting to work in CA due to family, weather, salaries, etc) with years of experience and then, maybe then, we'll truly have the nursing shortage that is so hyped up in the media and in our schools.

-- Hope that if a big nursing shortage does happen later on, the CA BON will be able to "bend" the rules for us.

Well, I have vented long enough, what do you guys think? We can do this, but probably not in CA for the present time.

BennyRNCA · Mar 15, 2012

This is just one of the issues that has affected those coming in from the Phillipines, but also from the UK and a couple of other countries....again, it's been there since 2003 or longer under the CA BON regs. It's Section 1426 (d) read below:

It was mentioned if the CA schools and most other states can do this, why didn't the overseas follow suit to meet the requirements? The overseas colleges excuse was a student can do it at a later time, as they are so impacted, it's impossible to assist those students to do this concurrently. Not the student's fault, not CA BON fault, it was the overseas colleges.

Since in the overseas situation, the overseas college MADE your cases as part of your course studies, but they choose to separate them, so they didn't have to do them concurrently, why not? Colleges claims they were too crowded, poor excuse or reasoning, the colleges should have done better.

1426. Required Curriculum

(a) The curriculum of a nursing program shall be that set forth in this section, and shall be approved by the board. Any revised curriculum shall be approved by the board prior to its implementation.

(b) The curriculum shall reflect a unifying theme, which includes the nursing process as defined by the faculty, and shall be designed so that a student who completes the program will have the knowledge, skills, and abilities necessary to function in accordance with the registered nurse scope of practice as defined in code section 2725, and to meet minimum competency standards of a registered nurse.

© The curriculum shall consist of not less than fifty-eight (58) semester units, or eighty-seven (87) quarter units, which shall include at least the following number of units in the specified course areas:

(1) Art and science of nursing, thirty-six (36) semester units or fifty-four (54) quarter units, of which eighteen (18) semester or twenty-seven (27) quarter units will be in theory and eighteen (18) semester or twenty-seven (27) quarter units will be in clinical practice.

(2) Communication skills, six (6) semester or nine (9) quarter units. Communication skills shall include principles of oral, written, and group communication.

(3) Related natural sciences (anatomy, physiology, and microbiology courses with labs), behavioral and social sciences, sixteen (16) semester or twenty-four (24) quarter units.

(d) Theory and clinical practice shall be concurrent in the following nursing areas: geriatrics, medical-surgical, mental health/psychiatric nursing, obstetrics, and pediatrics. Instructional outcomes will focus on delivering safe, therapeutic, effective, patient-centered care; practicing evidence-based practice; working as part of interdisciplinary teams; focusing on quality improvement; and using information technology. Instructional content shall include, but is not limited to, the following: critical thinking, personal hygiene, patient protection and safety, pain management, human sexuality, client abuse, cultural diversity, nutrition (including therapeutic aspects), pharmacology, patient advocacy, legal, social and ethical aspects of nursing, and nursing leadership and management.

BennyRNCA · Mar 15, 2012

to baynurse650:

you mentioned about nj and ca. in nj, you need other documentation form that ca does not require:

(from nj's own bon website) 1. a transcript review performed by the commission on graduates of foreign nursing schools(c.g.f.n.s.) (you are required to have the full education course by course report.).

so ca does its own evaluations rather than use nj's and from what other states may also require. each state is independent of each other as to how it regulates its requirements.

as to why you got your att and your other friend's didn't get the att and given the same courses, classes, instructors, etc--have you stated to your friends or the bon analyst who approved them seemed it was okay, why? are you able to compare the documentations you got and what they got? if you noticed in the other poster's mention, she had a friend who referred her rejection letters and those of a few others to a ca lawyer, who stated that he was questioning how one can get thru and another person was denied the att from the same source? there was other posters in the int'l section, that ca bon wanted names of who got in, but they didn't, but guess what? they didn't give out the name(s) for fear, it will cause their friends applications or licenses to be revoked or suspended. so say, if you got your att and passed, but your classmate who you graduated with, had the same or near same courses together, didn't get their att, either the analyst was different or the same analyst was asleep at the wheel or you got lucky, but good for you, bad for them.

with regards to your statement "why would they need such a thing when american curriculums won't even let student nurses perform actual assists in the or?" the usa side does not have scrubs or actual delivery requirements, those are cases that are a requirement from overseas, not here. the cases you talk about are about actual cord deliveries and a few other items, again, it's not a us requirement nor ca bon's. the clinical experiences must done at the same time as the theory. we have no such need for cases, but we must spend the clinical hours with an instructor/preceptor on the floor and each student will have their own patient(s).

your comment about "basically this means, they can still deny your licensure for reciprocity to california on the grounds that your foreign nursing education is still not good enough for a california license on the grounds that your clinicals and lectures were not concurrent." has been discussed several times in the other forums here. did you know that outside of a possible language barrier in taking the nclex, there are studies showing that the exam failure rate from the phillipines is almost 70% versus more than a 70% passage rate in ca. just go to the int'l section and you'll see other overseas graduates there saying they are taking the test for the "2nd or 3rd or more times". if that happens to any ca nursing schools, they will be looking very heavily at the student and look at that school's education way of why their students are failing at such a high rate and they will be removed from the approved list. in ca, you can take the exam for unlimited of times every 45 days. some states require any applicants after 3 or so failures to take a refreshner course and recently some ca applicants have been required to take a remedial course. in canada, after 3 tries, you lose your chances to become a nurse but can work and do lpn or cna type of work.

my point is that there is a higher nclex pass rate when students who have their clinical and theoreticals done concurrently, not months later, semesters later or even two years later as over there. the instructors here in ca have a more greater knowledge in their work experiences (years) and must be approved by the ca bon versus from what i was told, sometimes it's other recent graduated students conducting these clinicals, i mean, really?

well, i could go on, but the thing is we all have to comply with ca bon's rules, so should everyone wanting to be licensed in ca. there are no separate rules. there's no uniformed bon and you just go where things fit given the circumstances.

mjhay · Mar 16, 2012

hi there guys,..like to ask if anyone here did try to find a school and enroll in there for "additional course work?"..

i do have the same problem too..and i agree in above mention that we have nothing to do with it we should abide what rules they have,..so now,i was planning to apply for LVN for the meantime,hoping it'll works for me...so i could save enough money and can support myself in that additional course work...i know,everything will fall into their places someday..juz keep the faith guys,twas never too late for all of us.....Godbless..and Goodluck!