i'll probably get flamed to the moon and back for this but..

[elijahvegas]

does anyone else get tired of hearing (from other SNAs/hopefuls/vets) what we nurses are "suppose" to be like ?

i read through thread after thread of how if you're not "compassionate to the core" and "really into nursing" and all this other stuff, you won't do well in the program or as a nurse in general.

is it really that big of a deal that some use the profession as a fallback option, or as a way to get by while trying to pursue something they'd really wanna be doing, without having to work something that provides just above minimum wage to make ends meet ?

i often hear people being scolded because their "heart" isn't in nursing, and for taking a seat away from others who "really" want to be there. Are any of us less deserving because we went through the same prereqs as everyone else but were competitive enough to actually secure a seat ? Is this something i should apologize for ? Should we be barred from applying simply because we have different prospects for the horizon ? Say med school ? or a field outside of healthcare altogether ?

Is it wrong to consider this profession a job ? one in which i will do my best to do well as i would with any other endeavor ? I go in with an attitude to make sure all of my duties are done, everyone is accounted for, and everything is the way it should be from the time i arrive until the time i clock out. Does it make me a bad nurse that i don't cry with a patient when they're going through a hard time ? Please dont take this as an implication as me directing negative or rude comments towards the patient. I'm attentive, and consoling, but i'd rather not have my emotions tie me up in knots to the point where i start to make clinical errors, which in the end is truly the most important thing to me.

Don't mind me, just my Tuesday morning rant for the day. I'm curious to see who else feels like this. I know im the minority but i can't be the only one

[elijahvegas, ASN, RN, EMT-P]

I agree that the comment demonstrated a severe knowledge deficit about the roll of RNs.

Let me explain that part. The thread that I kept being quoted on that keeps getting pulled into here and quoted, someone mentioned how much of an elite skill it is to titrate several drips at once and it's a skill that can't simply be "taught".

So I used that as an example here as a skill that'd I'd like to have that would be more valuable to me to have than that of making a bed. But apparently that still isn't good enough, and now after quoting another nurse, I have no idea what nurses do at all apparently

The level of ridiculousness all of this is overwhelming.

[TraumaSurfer]

I can't tell of you're deliberately missing the point of everything I say, or you actually believe what you're trying to get across

If you think knowing the difference between slander and libel is what makes or breaks a nurse, medic, or anything other healthcare professional I think we are in mutual agreement that were glad not to be working with each other.

But I do enjoy the generalization placed on ems throughout these forums. It's completely unfathomable why a cna or lpn would say something like this...no one in my class could possibly agree with me, right? But since he's a medic, Oh Well, that explains everything.

I still can not believe you don't get why ethics, safety and legal are of no importance in either nursing or EMS. I gave you very clear examples which have been in every EMS magazine and journal not to mention topics in all the major national and state EMS conferences. When was the last time you were a Paramedic? Didn't you get any of this in your refresher? Didn't the highly publicized EMS lawsuits in your area not demonstrate where some things could be improved in the ethical, safety and legal aspects of emergent care? Several of us commenting here do have an EMS background so stop with the "oh so misunderstood Paramedic" stuff. You posted your opinion and question on an open forum and now you seem to be unhappy when not everyone is pouring sympathetic responses your way.

One more thing, what exactly do you think is involved in titrating drips? It is a little more than just learning to push buttons on a pump. Believe it or not but there are some legal, ethical and safety things to learn to do this also.

[elijahvegas, ASN, RN, EMT-P]

I still can not believe you don't get why ethics, safety and legal are of no importance in either nursing or EMS. I gave you very clear examples which have been in every EMS magazine and journal not to mention topics in all the major national and state EMS conferences. When was the last time you were a Paramedic? Didn't you get any of this in your refresher? Didn't the highly publicized EMS lawsuits in your area not demonstrate where some things could be improved in the ethical, safety and legal aspects of emergent care? Several of us commenting here do have an EMS background so stop with the "oh so misunderstood Paramedic" stuff. You posted your opinion and question on an open forum and now you seem to be unhappy when not everyone is pouring sympathetic responses your way.

One more thing, what exactly do you think is involved in titrating drips? It is a little more than just learning to push buttons on a pump. Believe it or not but there are some legal, ethical and safety things to learn to do this also.

Enough with the Inferences. Go back and quote exactly where I said ethics and legal are not Important to nursing and/or ems. And as a matter of fact I wasn't even the first to mention ems in this. Nor was I the one to mention any other older posts before being told I'm not an easy student/classmate to deal with--thanks for that by the way! Not judgmental at all.

I do recall saying things like I don't want to spend several classes going over these topics. They're the shortest chapters in any and every book. We get it. State And national exams, they take up the smallest percentage of questions in the bank. Keep spouting as if what I'm saying isn't true. I'll scan my national reg statistic analysis sheet for you and show you exactly what I'm talking about

But back to my initial statement. Please quote for me when I said anything beyond "these topics fall short of my interests in the medical field".

This whole thing has gotten so far removed from my Initial topic to the point where We're discussing 2 different threads at once. So from here on out I'm only acknowledging and replying to that which relates to my primary post.

[TraumaSurfer]

Enough with the Inferences. Go back and quote exactly where I said ethics and legal are not Important to nursing and/or ems. And as a matter of fact I wasn't even the first to mention ems in this. Nor was I the one to mention any other older posts before being told I'm not an easy student/classmate to deal with--thanks for that by the way! Not judgmental at all.

I do recall saying things like I don't want to spend several classes going over these topics. They're the shortest chapters in any and every book. We get it. State And national exams, they take up the smallest percentage of questions in the bank. Keep spouting as if what I'm saying isn't true. I'll scan my national reg statistic analysis sheet for you and show you exactly what I'm talking about

But back to my initial statement. Please quote for me when I said anything beyond "these topics fall short of my interests in the medical field".

This whole thing has gotten so far removed from my Initial topic to the point where We're discussing 2 different threads at once. So from here on out I'm only acknowledging and replying to that which relates to my primary post.

I have quoted you. Others have quoted you. Others have had exactly the same discussion with you about the "fluff" stuff but it still seems to escape you as to why those classes are important I used EMS as an example hoping something would sink in which you might be familiar. Patient care is a lot more than just a couple of cool skills. Until you understand that you will struggle in nursing school. You can try to convince yourself and others that nothing else is important to justify your attitude but those who want to succeed in this profession FOR WHATEVER REASON (money, love, passion, a steady job, etc) will just ignore your ranting.

[elijahvegas, ASN, RN, EMT-P]

I have quoted you. Others have quoted you. Others have had exactly the same discussion with you about the "fluff" stuff but it still seems to escape you as to why those classes are important I used EMS as an example hoping something would sink in which you might be familiar. Patient care is a lot more than just a couple of cool skills. Until you understand that you will struggle in nursing school. You can try to convince yourself and others that nothing else is important to justify your attitude but those who want to succeed in this profession FOR WHATEVER REASON (money, love, passion, a steady job, etc) will just ignore your ranting.

Yes, I've been quoted. I asked for a quote when I said ethics and legal and such aren't Important.

This post didn't really start getting out of hand until the other posts were incorporated. Everyone had their options where they agreed or disagreed with me, and I was quite receptive to each response..it seems to be just you thats Continuing this assault. So I have no qualms against you ignoring me. I'd actually quite prefer it, as opposed to you looking through every one of my past posts to find out what my deal is.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

Yes, I've been quoted. I asked for a quote when I said ethics and legal and such aren't Important.

This post didn't really start getting out of hand until the other posts were incorporated. Everyone had their options where they agreed or disagreed with me, and I was quite receptive to each response..it seems to be just you thats Continuing this assault. So I have no qualms against you ignoring me. I'd actually quite prefer it, as opposed to you looking through every one of my past posts to find out what my deal is.

Well you kind of did.....

All i was saying was i dont really want to spend several classes going over the ethical terms, safety terms, legal terms. That doesn't mean im trashing nurses in general or the whole profession. But these are things id rather learn OJT, in an HR handbook when im on the floor, because lets face it, each dept and facility has their own policies anyway.

is implying it isn't important. While each facility/state has thir own policies and procedure...it is important for both a medic and nurse to know what their legal/ethical responsibilities are and to know the state nurse practice acts which governs your practice regardless of the hospital policy.

I had extensive legal/ethical instruction in school many moons ago and it serves me well to this very day.

[TraumaSurfer]

Yes, I've been quoted. I asked for a quote when I said ethics and legal and such aren't Important.

And you got quotes. You got into this same discussion in other threads. Just go back and read what I have quoted. Read what others have said. You have had lengthy arguments with others on this same topic.

This post didn't really start getting out of hand until the other posts were incorporated. Everyone had their options where they agreed or disagreed with me, and I was quite receptive to each response..it seems to be just you thats Continuing this assault. So I have no qualms against you ignoring me. I'd actually quite prefer it, as opposed to you looking through every one of my past posts to find out what my deal is.

You just asked for quotes which were the incorporated posts. Now you consider providing what you asked for an assault? The posts were not all in the past (2 months at the most). Myself and ESME have used quotes from this discussion. You have continued to disagree with anyone who offered you an opinion you did not want to read or YOU thought was not a suitable answer for you own beliefs. If you know all the answers why did you bother posting at all?

But, your first sentence in the first post here was misleading:

what we nurses are "suppose" to be like ?

In that sentence you implied being a nurse even though you only had 1 semester of nursing school and have demonstrated you still do not know what a nurse is or does.

Now I am finished with you on this discussion.

[ixchel]

OP, I'm just a random onlooker but I want to say that your posts do read as condescending to nursing in general and that being a medic is a step below being a doctor. The vibe of your posts indicates that you feel your medic education prepared you to almost be able to do the job of a doctor. (I imagine doctors must feel very annoyed that they wasted the extra 8 years and $100,000 on their educations.)

While that may not be word for word what you said, that is the impression you convey. Patient stabilization in the field is highly skill intensive. Be proud and thankful that these things do not scare you, because I guarantee they scare the bejeezus out of the students in your cohort. Realize, though, that a nurse requires different knowledge than a practiced skill set and ABC (I suppose it's CAB now) to perform in the nurse's scope of practice. A nurse needs those skills, plus the knowledge of what comes after you drop the patient off at the ER. The nurse knows what comes after the ER, and what is needed when the patient is admitted. The doctors come for their rounds and rely on the observations of the nurses. And then the doctor leaves, trusting the nurses to provide ongoing care and observation. The nurse is the eyes and ears. Do you know what to look for? The nurse is the patient education, which requires knowing what to say and why. The nurse is in the community setting, after the patient is discharged. They are the patient advocate. Do you know what to advocate for, how, and why? There is so, so much more to nursing care than stabilizing a patient.

A medic is a valuable and necessary resource. They are vital, and I don't mean to take away from that. Stabilizing a patient in the field requires a different skill set than nursing, although nurses who travel with EMS and work in acute care will require that skill set as well. When we go to nursing school, we gain the initial knowledge needed to start our careers and when we get our first jobs, the knowledge is broadened and more refined. If I understand all you've said up until this point, it feels like you had different expectations going into this, which is okay as long as you manage to take a step back and pick up the stuff you seem to have missed your first semester. Let go of your "autonomy" and medic ideas, and try to approach nursing with a clean slate, with no expectations at all.

A story for you, and then I'll quit rambling.

When I got to my peds, and subsequently, my maternity classes, I thought they would be easy because I went into them with a ton of prior knowledge. As it turns out, I struggled with them the most because I went in with expectations and probably too much confidence. I also struggled with knowing where the line was drawn with what education I was allowed to give in the hospital, and what I wasn't, especially in maternity, because I've taught childbirth classes in the past. It was my instructor's license I was working under, so I had to step back and know when to shut up, basically. Between the two, I did better in peds because my knowledge going into it was slightly less than maternity. I went in with slightly less prior knowledge and assumptions.

My point is, I can understand why it is such a struggle to look at nursing through nursing's eyes when you have so much prior knowledge in the medical world in general from a different perspective. Try as hard as you can to let go of your prior understanding. If you find you can't, it may be your undoing. This will be reflected in your patient care.

[OCNRN63, RN]

Enough with the Inferences. Go back and quote exactly where I said ethics and legal are not Important to nursing and/or ems. And as a matter of fact I wasn't even the first to mention ems in this. Nor was I the one to mention any other older posts before being told I'm not an easy student/classmate to deal with--thanks for that by the way! Not judgmental at all.

I do recall saying things like I don't want to spend several classes going over these topics. They're the shortest chapters in any and every book. We get it. State And national exams, they take up the smallest percentage of questions in the bank. Keep spouting as if what I'm saying isn't true. I'll scan my national reg statistic analysis sheet for you and show you exactly what I'm talking about

But back to my initial statement. Please quote for me when I said anything beyond "these topics fall short of my interests in the medical field".

This whole thing has gotten so far removed from my Initial topic to the point where We're discussing 2 different threads at once. So from here on out I'm only acknowledging and replying to that which relates to my primary post.

Problem is, if you blow off these topics you think are inconsequential, it may be to your disadvantage later. I don't remember the questions on NCLEX-RN when I took it; that was close to 30 years ago. But I do remember taking specialty certification exams (5 of them). Every single one of them had several questions related to cultural competency, ethics, and legal issues. With this last certification, I probably would have failed the test if I hadn't paid attention to those topics.

Perhaps you don't think it's important to learn how to make a bed properly, but I can guarantee you the patient who is bedfast thinks it's very important. When you have to spend all day and all night in bed, there's almost nothing that feels better than crisp, tight sheets. (Well, back rubs feel better, but no one teaches them anymore, and you're lucky to get someone to slap a glob of lotion on you.)

A sloppily made bed doesn't just feel bad; it can also lead to skin breakdown-> decubitus ulcers-> CMS not reimbursing for the treatment of an ulcer the patient didn't have on admission.

There are lots of things you may think are unimportant right now, but that's because you are not pulling everything together and applying it to patient care. Things that seem irrelevant now become very important in real practice.

[elijahvegas, ASN, RN, EMT-P]

And you got quotes. You got into this same discussion in other threads. Just go back and read what I have quoted. Read what others have said. You have had lengthy arguments with others on this same topic.

You just asked for quotes which were the incorporated posts. Now you consider providing what you asked for an assault? The posts were not all in the past (2 months at the most). Myself and ESME have used quotes from this discussion. You have continued to disagree with anyone who offered you an opinion you did not want to read or YOU thought was not a suitable answer for you own beliefs. If you know all the answers why did you bother posting at all?

But, your first sentence in the first post here was misleading:

In that sentence you implied being a nurse even though you only had 1 semester of nursing school and have demonstrated you still do not know what a nurse is or does.

Now I am finished with you on this discussion.

Thank God youre done.

I asked for specific quotes that you were unable to provide, and instead quoted other things unrelated to what I asked for to prove a point that nobody was debating. But I'm glad were making progress here.

[elijahvegas, ASN, RN, EMT-P]

Problem is, if you blow off these topics you think are inconsequential, it may be to your disadvantage later. I don't remember the questions on NCLEX-RN when I took it; that was close to 30 years ago. But I do remember taking specialty certification exams (5 of them). Every single one of them had several questions related to cultural competency, ethics, and legal issues. With this last certification, I probably would have failed the test if I hadn't paid attention to those topics.

so what youre saying is that it took a specific cert that incorporated these topics for you to really dial in on it hm ?

A sloppily made bed doesn't just feel bad; it can also lead to skin breakdown-> decubitus ulcers-> CMS not reimbursing for the treatment of an ulcer the patient didn't have on admission.

This to me implies that you believe someone who wasn't completely enthralled by the idea of making a bed the first day of class is going to have no desire to do it properly once working, will be a hazard to everyone they come across that needs a bed change, causing a record number of rampant pressure ulcers across throughout the facility, and will crash and burn because they cant remember that if what they did was unethical or some kind of form of defamation

(yes, this scenario was blatantly exaggerated, but with the way that people are acting like im suggesting we throw out everything that isn't "needle whiz related" from the curriculum, i felt it called for an equally heinous exaggeration)

There are lots of things you may think are unimportant right now, but that's because you are not pulling everything together and applying it to patient care. Things that seem irrelevant now become very important in real practice.

everything is tied into everything we do, otherwise they wouldn't teach it to us. this isn't something thats lost on me. but i dont find that everything we learn holds the same weight. just because i dont care for the topics in class, doesn't mean i sit in the middle of the room with my fingers in my ears going "lalalalalala" . i still learn it, take it all in, and when its time to perform, i do it and i do it to the best of my ability. whether or not something interests me does not effect the level my best effort can provide. if im bad at something, its not because i dont care. its because im bad at it. ill be bad at some things that interest me, and ill be bad at things that disinterest me as well

[elijahvegas, ASN, RN, EMT-P]

Well you kind of did

All i was saying was i dont really want to spend several classes going over the ethical terms, safety terms, legal terms. That doesn't mean im trashing nurses in general or the whole profession. But these are things id rather learn OJT, in an HR handbook when im on the floor, because lets face it, each dept and facility has their own policies anyway.

is implying it isn't important. While each facility/state has thir own policies and procedure...it is important for both a medic and nurse to know what their legal/ethical responsibilities are and to know the state nurse practice acts which governs your practice regardless of the hospital policy.

I had extensive legal/ethical instruction in school many moons ago and it serves me well to this very day.

et tu, brut ?

it specifically says, these are things id rather learn OJT, in an HR handbook when im on the floor

but somehow got turned into "i hate nurses and everything we do that doesn't deal with an IV"if youre telling me that there wasn't a single day throughout nursing school that you weren't bored by the content material you were going over (not saying it was useless information, or not helpful or relevant to what we do) then you either blocked out some memories, or youre florence nightingale herself

i asked to be quoted specifically because especially when it comes to text-based conversations, certain tones can be (and often are) misinterpreted and have to be assumed. im aware how some of my posts sounded both here and in other threads. ive attempted to disarm this barrier that ive apparently put up so that i could try to clarify exactly what im saying. nothing i say needs to derive any additional implication outside of exactly what i say, specifically IN THIS THREAD. ive since done away with the others, because a lot of my opinions on that topic were unwarranted to say the least. So for the last time, lets keep everything from here on out factually based, on topic, and not speculate on what i "probably" meant when i said "such and such"