I am feeling very conflicted about making a decision in the near future about this, and I would appreciate reliable and honest advice. I am finishing a very difficult 5 year degree, and have wanted a job in healthcare for a long time. I still want to pursue a career part time in what i am studying, which is to be a band and music teacher, and am considering going to nursing school part time during the year and taking summer courses while i teach. I think nursing would be a very rewarding profession, and I think that I would be very happy to be a nurse. I do feel a calling toward a job in the medical field, and I am still young, I am 23 years old, and I feel that if I am going to devote so much more energy, time, and money into a second career I need to decide now.
With everything going on in the United States ( I live in Canada), I am extremely concerned about whether I would actually be able to work as a nurse by the time I graduate or not. I am unapollogetically pro-life, and would never have anything to do with abortion whatsoever. This to me even includes post abortion care. How much trouble will I have? It seems that every hospital that is not a Catholic hospital runs into this situation. I have friends in nursing that tell me that you would jsut work in a different branch of the hospital but then I hear stories about nurses still having to walk away from certain situations having to do with abortion. I would actually really like to work in Cosmetic surgery, but I am not sure how the job market is out there for that. I feel something telling me I should go ahead with it because this is something that I feel I really may be meant to do in my life,, but I will NOT participate in anything to do with abortion ever. My husband has a good career here in Canada, so the chacnes of us moving to another country are slimto none until retirement,
I do not want to start up a debate, I am just an exhausted student who is trying to make a really big decision and is increadibly overwhelmed at what i should do. I really appreciate your responses!
I'm pro life and have never had to deal with abortions directly. The closet I come is seeing something like "Patient had 2 voluntarily terminated pregnancies" in an H&P. Like others have said, if you're not working some place that does abortions, it's not going to be an issue.
The reality is that any inpatient area could conceivably require you to take care of someone with something indirectly or directly related to an abortion.
Basic examples are someone who had an outpatient abortion somewhere and ended up two weeks later with a DVT or PE. It happens-- are you going to refuse to care for their current and potentially life-threatening condition if such a patient comes across you in the ER, ICU, or even cath lab?
Same for sepsis. Rare these days, but considering the sheer amount of under-the-table abortions performed in areas it is illegal, definitely plausible.
In those scenarios, your issue is not with the tasks required of you to perform but your judgement of your patients-- this is a huge issue.
I had a patient last night with a giant swastika with SS tatoo across his chest.
I still had an ethical obligation to continue to care for him (pulmonary emboli) despite my personal objection.
Not to be a PITA, but I'd like to see anyone attempt to refuse a patient during clinical and not find themselves out of favor in a big way. Sure you might technically have a right to refuse, and at clinical they might allow you an "out" but you will pay for that patient refusal dearly my dear at some point along the way.
You might have a problem with some clinical instructors, especially in OB, but if you are honest and explain your beliefs to the instructor, you should be able to complete your clinical experience with few problems.
Having said that, you also need to figure out what sort of care you are comfortable in giving. Obviously, you would not want to participate in an elective abortion. However, would you feel a moral dilemma caring for someone who had post-abortion complications? Someone who was having a D & C due to fetal demise?
A couple of years ago, I heard about a student at the school at which I taught who was so stringent in her pro-life beliefs that she refused a clinical assignment in which she was going to take care of a woman who had just given birth; apparently the woman had an elective abortion YEARS earlier but the student was uncomfortable taking care of her during her OB rotation. Was it discomfort or judgment? In all honesty, as an instructor I would certainly honor a student's concerns about an assignment that might be in violation of his/her religious beliefs. But I would have a very difficult time justifying changing the assignment if the patient was not receiving nursing care specifically for reasons related to the issue (say, having an abortion.) I would have been very upset had I been the med-surg instructor and a student would refuse an assignment to, say, a patient who was having knee surgery simply because that patient had an abortion in her history. Am I making sense?
I have seen some instructors violate student beliefs and in those situations I think students need to make their concerns known, even if it means making formal complaints to the director of the program or the school itself. Students need to be assertive and stand up for their rights. It is WRONG for an instructor to violate a student's belief system with an unreasonable assignment, especially if there are alternative assignments available.
Back to the original post, my other concern is with the OP's intent to work only during the summer as an RN. With the economy the way that it is, I'm not sure that's realistic. I also don't think it would be realistic to expect to be hired by any hospital if it is known that one is only available during the summer months. Nursing changes too rapidly to take nine months off each and every year. It would be expensive for an institution to train and orient an employee who is only there for a few months. You could, however, work PRN or per diem, but that would mean working during the school year as well. I commend the OP for her ambition and commitment, but nursing is a difficult, demanding career, as is teaching. I would be very concerned about getting burned out in both jobs since both are helping professions.
HTH! And good luck to you in whatever career path you choose.
I understand this is how you feel at this moment and my gut reaction was to tell you to find a different career. But as I thought about it, I realized if you do become a nurse you will be caring for all sorts of different people with varied backgrounds and issues.
I would wager the more you do that, the more you will realize that your client's specific issues don't matter to you - your clients will matter to you. Your professional training will help move this process along nicely.
I had some definite attitudes when I was 23 also. I cannot begin to tell you how many of those have changed. Perhaps yours will too.
even if "by accident" she was to encounter an event in a hospital that she might personally deem as an act of abortion, still and rightly so the pro-life nurse has every right to excuse herself from the said proceeding; that is, courtesy of the law passed in the last hours of the bush II presidency enabling any health care provider to object to any proceedings that would jeopardize that person's morals and beliefs. i think it's called the conscientious objector or something like that...here's a link:http://www.madisoncatholicherald.org/opinion/editorial/466-2009-03-05-editorial.html
I understand your objections but I respectfully disagree with you. I understand your concerns about more governmental involvement in personal matters but in this case, there are health care professionals who need the protection of the law. How many pro-life nurses have been fired because they stood up for their religious beliefs and refused to participate in procedures or treatment they deem incongruent with their faith? I do believe that some use this law as an excuse to not provide certain types of care or treatment (the notion of the pharmacist who refuses to fill a prescription for the morning after pill comes immediately to mind). However, I also think that health care professionals should be able to excuse themselves from a procedure that they feel violates their spiritual beliefs. If that means certain nurses don't scrub for elective abortions or do pre or post-abortion care in same day surgery, managers need to respect that.
However, I also think health care professionals need to be responsible for their own career choices and look carefully at the kind of nursing practice they want before they decide to go into certain specialties. It's not realistic, say, for a WHNP to decide to never take care of a woman who has ever had an abortion. And, as others have pointed out, OB and same day surgery in a setting the provides abortion would not be a good choice, either. I think the pro-life nurse who takes a job at Planned Parenthood has made a very poor job choice that threatens the quality of care he/she renders as well as his/her own moral integrity.
I can see not working in an abortion clinic, but refusing patient care to someone post abortion? That doesn't make sense. What about the gang member who has been shot and took a shot at someone else who comes in to the ER? What about, like one of the poster's said, someone with racist tatoos? The list can go on and on. When you are in healthcare, you may not like people's beliefs, but if there life is at stake, your job is to provide the best care that you can. That being said, don't work in an area that does abortions. That's easy enough. Maybe reconsider.
when i did my ob rotation, we only took care of post-partum mothers. i do not recall ever taking care of a pt that had an abortion.
if it did come to you getting assigned a pt who was a "post-abortion" pt, you could always ask your preceptor or clinical instructor to re-assign you. i don't know that that would happen though...aren't abortions done on an outpt basis?
please note, though that it is required (at least in the u.s., and i'm fairly certain canada as well) you must do an ob rotation. you might have a pt who has had an abortion in the past. with all due respect, if you cannot be re-assigned to another pt you might need to take care of that pt and put your personal feelings about her past medical hx aside.
good luck!
the hospital where i work only does abortions to save the mother's life (very rare) or for birth defects incompatible with life; these pregnancies often cause adverse effects on the mother's health and is often the real reason why they choose to terminate. anencephaly, grade 4 spina bifida, body stalk anomaly, that kind of thing. if these procedures are done after the first trimester, they have to induce labor and the whole process can take several days.
you nurses already know this but the op probably wouldn't.
How many pro-life nurses have been fired because they stood up for their religious beliefs and refused to participate in procedures or treatment they deem incongruent with their faith?
Work in a nursing home or Public Health. Even if you work in a Catholic hospital, if you work in nearly every department (except short stay MAYBE) you will have to care for women that come in to the ER from abortions gone bad.
The hospital where I work only does abortions to save the mother's life (very rare) or for birth defects incompatible with life; these pregnancies often cause adverse effects on the mother's health and is often the real reason why they choose to terminate. Anencephaly, grade 4 spina bifida, body stalk anomaly, that kind of thing. If these procedures are done after the first trimester, they have to induce labor and the whole process can take several days.
You nurses already know this but the OP probably wouldn't.
Good point. While I have empathy and respect for those who are against abortion, I am pro-choice and have seen a lot of distortion about the reality of third trimester abortions. They are not, as some assert, done for the convenience of the mother but most are done in extreme cases in which, as you say, the birth defects are incompatible with life. I do understand why some nurses would feel uncomfortable taking care of these women, even though I personally think they deserve all the empathy and compassion one can muster.
I once knew a nurse who was pro-life and refused to take any patients who were having abortions. One time, she was supposed to take the first admit of the shift. The first patient happened to be a pre-op elective abortion. The nurse marched into the patient's room and told her that she could not be her nurse because she felt that abortion was murder. IMO, that nurse should have been fired on the spot for her unprofessionalism and cruelty. She could have discussed the situation with the charge nurse, who was a reasonable sort who would have changed the assignment. Her unprofessional action was NOT being pro-life or refusing an assignment; it was her heinous and inexcusable treatment of a patient.
I don't believe anyone should be fired for refusing to take an assignment because it violates his/her religious beliefs. However, I do think nurses should be fired for being inexcusable rude and judgmental as was this particular nurse.
I do completely understand and wholeheartedly respect your opinion and your feelings. But I must ask you, why do you want to become a nurse? If you want to help people and make a difference in someone's life, do it. But you can't put restrictions on those you deem acceptable to help. Being a nurse you are going to deal with people who may not share your same ideals and morals but your job as a nurse is to help heal. While I applaud your courage to be true to your feelings, I think that if you are unable to put your personal feelings to the side and help care for a patient you must really think about if nursing is something you want to do. Good luck to you in whatever you choose.
Amen to the last post. You put into words what I was going to comment. How can you want to be a nurse when you think it is okay to judge whom should receive your care. Did not Jesus help the prostitutes, poor, lepers, and criminals?
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blondy2061h, MSN, RN
1 Article; 4,094 Posts
I'm pro life and have never had to deal with abortions directly. The closet I come is seeing something like "Patient had 2 voluntarily terminated pregnancies" in an H&P. Like others have said, if you're not working some place that does abortions, it's not going to be an issue.