Private duty lpn, rn supervisor??

Specialties Private Duty

Published

Hey everyone!

I'm trying to fill out the enrollment application to be a Medicaid provider on ohiohcp.org. I finished it up until page 15 of 17 it's asking me for a rn nursung supervisor. I am only an lpn I have had my license since August. It will not let me finish the application until I write a rn name and license down. Do I find my own rn and can it be any rn? I know of two that said they might but do they need to do anything? I only got 3 days to finish the app and I don't know what to do!

Specializes in Peds Homecare.

Not every state has the same requirements. I don't need any RN working with me if I wanted to get my number and bill and work on my own in NYS. Don't be so quick to say it has to be this way. Not every state is the same.

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Specializes in Peds(PICU, NICU float), PDN, ICU.
Not every state has the same requirements. I don't need any RN working with me if I wanted to get my number and bill and work on my own in NYS. Don't be so quick to say it has to be this way. Not every state is the same.

I don't know any state that allows an LPN to work without an RN overseeing. LPNs can't work independently and must work under the RN. That is consistent state to state.

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Specializes in Peds Homecare.

In NYS, orders are written by the doctor. ""In the instance that PDN services are to be provided wholly or in part by an

independently enrolled LPN, the ordering physician must certify the following in writing.

Private Duty Nursing Manual Policy Guidelines ____________________________________________________________________________________

https://www.emedny.org/ProviderManuals/NursingServices/PDFS/Private_Duty_Nursing_Policy.pdf

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Specializes in Peds(PICU, NICU float), PDN, ICU.
In NYS, orders are written by the doctor. ""In the instance that PDN services are to be provided wholly or in part by an

independently enrolled LPN, the ordering physician must certify the following in writing.

Private Duty Nursing Manual Policy Guidelines ____________________________________________________________________________________

https://www.emedny.org/ProviderManuals/NursingServices/PDFS/Private_Duty_Nursing_Policy.pdf

LPNs still can't do the initial assessment, etc. It is still out of out scope of practice, which is why an RN is necessary.

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Specializes in Peds Homecare.

The point I was making was that LPN's are not supervised by an RN, their is no such thing in my state. Only the LPN is being paid.

"I don't know any state that allows an LPN to work without an RN overseeing. LPNs can't work independently and must work under the RN. That is consistent state to state. " My friends who do private duty on their own are not supervised. Their documentation is sent to the state. No RN, no agency.

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Specializes in Complex pedi to LTC/SA & now a manager.

Actually in many states LPNs can work under the direction of an MD, DO, DDS, DMD (physician or dentist) OR an RN.

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Specializes in Peds(PICU, NICU float), PDN, ICU.
The point I was making was that LPN's are not supervised by an RN, their is no such thing in my state. Only the LPN is being paid.

"I don't know any state that allows an LPN to work without an RN overseeing. LPNs can't work independently and must work under the RN. That is consistent state to state. " My friends who do private duty on their own are not supervised. Their documentation is sent to the state. No RN, no agency.

http://www.op.nysed.gov/prof/nurse/

This says in NY that LPNs must be supervised.

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Specializes in HH, Peds, Rehab, Clinical.

It's that way in my state as well, BUT, all LPN's who are doing PDN and billing the State for services provided, MUST have an RN supervisor. Ideally its someone who also works the same case that they do, but not required.

Well, in my state the gov. website specifically states that LPNs can do PDN and be bill medicaid with an NPI number, so no, I don't think they are doing it illegally :-) I have no idea what the application asks for though :-)
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Specializes in HH, Peds, Rehab, Clinical.

And no, the RN is not physically supervising the LPN as s/he performs her work as a PDN, it's just a requirement that the LPN have an RN supervisor listed for their records

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Specializes in assisted living.

I see BuckyBadger....so a case couldn't have all LPNs working on it? I also think that as an RN I wouldn't want to sign off as a supervisor of someone that was working when I wasn't actually there. seems risky? I am really new to all of this so and don't currently work PDN so I don't know much :-) Just that there are LPNs on these cases and billing the state. I am guessing by your name that you are in WI :-) Me too :-)

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Specializes in Peds(PICU, NICU float), PDN, ICU.
I see BuckyBadger....so a case couldn't have all LPNs working on it? I also think that as an RN I wouldn't want to sign off as a supervisor of someone that was working when I wasn't actually there. seems risky? I am really new to all of this so and don't currently work PDN so I don't know much :-) Just that there are LPNs on these cases and billing the state. I am guessing by your name that you are in WI :-) Me too :-)

When an agency is involved, the supervisor isn't physically there all the time and may never work the case. However, the supervisor is always available for clinical questions. The RN supervisor must do an assessment for the 485 since the LPN can't do the initial assessment. The RN can read the LPN notes to keep up with what is going on, on the case. The RN doesn't sign off for the LPN. But the RN may do skills check off to check for competency. If something goes wrong on the case and the LPN calls the RN, you can bet the LPN will document that and if something goes to court you will have to answer for what you instructed the LPN to do. But keep in mind, the LPN is also licensed and will have to answer for their actions too.

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Specializes in HH, Peds, Rehab, Clinical.

Yes, a case could have all LPN's on it. The way the wording is when you're a provider for Badgercare is very vague. All LPN's have to have that RN supervisor, but the RN can be ANYONE with RN after their name. When I was on a PD peds case, I was the case manager, but I refused to be the RN supervisor for any LPN on the case. I never worked WITH any of them and based on some of the scary nursing notes taken, there was no way I wanted to be tied to them in such a way. And yes, I'm in WI =)

I see BuckyBadger....so a case couldn't have all LPNs working on it? I also think that as an RN I wouldn't want to sign off as a supervisor of someone that was working when I wasn't actually there. seems risky? I am really new to all of this so and don't currently work PDN so I don't know much :-) Just that there are LPNs on these cases and billing the state. I am guessing by your name that you are in WI :-) Me too :-)
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