Post-Master's FNP versus Med School

zenman · Apr 13, 2012

I'm frustrated that I still seem to be in the same situation that I was in while trying to make this decision in college. I feel like I should be past this point in my life! Any feedback into my situation would be helpful.

Perhaps you might benefit from reading "Stop Your **** Shoveling" by Carl A. Hammerschlag, M.D.

canchaser, BSN, RN · Apr 13, 2012

Perhaps you might benefit from reading "Stop Your **** Shoveling" by Carl A. Hammerschlag, M.D.

Well, I just youtubed him and he seems like he knows his ****. Pun inteneded. OP go for it if you want to and you think it will complete your life. the university @ kansas has a DO program that is "accelerated"

HealthyRN · Apr 13, 2012

Perhaps you might benefit from reading "Stop Your **** Shoveling" by Carl A. Hammerschlag, M.D.

I googled him and the book does sound interesting. I will definitely check it out :)

KurtDNP · May 9, 2012

Here's my $0.02 :specs:

WARNING: These are just MY PERSONAL OPINIONS based on MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCES and MY PERSONAL UNDERSTANDING at I CURRENTLY KNOW IT. OK, here goes...

MD or DO

Do you have to do or redo the minimal premed classes (1 yr gen bio, 1 yr gen chem, 1 yr physics w/lab, 1 yr org chem)? If so, assuming you want to do family practice or internal medicine without a subspecialty, you're generally looking at:

1-2 years to complete premed classes

4 years of medical school (a few might have year-round intensive classes/clinicals making them a little more than 3 yrs long)

1 year of internship (perhaps)

3 years of residency

So, you're looking at a minimum of 7 years to as much as 10 years (not counting subspecialties or fellowships). If you do family practice, you'll generally come out with a ridiculous amount of debt making between $120K to $220K. If you own your own practice and work shrewdly, you can obviously make way more. Most importantly, you'll have the deepest most comprehensive knowledge of physiology, pathophysiology, microbiology, and obviously medicine (the discipline not the generic sense of the word). You'll also have the most autonomy, social respect, professional privileges, and financial rewards relative to other disciplines in healthcare.

Top Pros: more in-depth natural science knowledge, more money, more autonomy, more social/professional respect

Top Cons: more debt, more difficult to have/raise family during and even after, many many years of schooling, totally rebuilding your knowledge base (very different approach, assumptions, and values relative to nursing)

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Post-Masters FNP

Typically, you can complete these in 4-5 semesters (1.25 - 2 yrs) full-time or 2.25 to 4 years part-time. If you add the DNP curriculum, you're looking at about 2.5 to 3 years full-time to a maximum of 5 years (typically no more time than this is permitted).

You'll graduate with moderate to no extra debt, in a much shorter space of time, making between $60K to $150K (ER NPs typically make between $90K and $150K). If you own your own practice (and you can in most if not all states) and work shrewdly, you can make way more. However, you will have more barriers to practice (although these will get less and less over time). You'll have the most comprehensive nursing knowledge but only a decent amount of medical knowledge (meaning the discipline, not the general sense of the word); and decent but relatively cursory knowledge of physiology, pathophysiology, and microbiology. You'll have more autonomy than undergraduate nurses but less than MDs/DOs, some social respect, unpredictable levels of professional privileges, and generally only moderate financial rewards relative to medicine.

Top Pros: more in-depth human science knowledge, potentially really good money relative to years spent in school, more family-friendly (most students are older nontraditional students with family responsibilities), builds on your nursing base

Top Cons: practice barriers (legal, social, institutional, regulatory, etc.), less natural science knowledge base, less traditional earning potential relative to MDs and DOs

Conclusion

I was in the similar predicament and chose the postmasters FNP. I prefer nursing's holistic patient-centered value system and the heavy emphasis on human science. While these are now en vogue even for the medicine disciplines, it has always been fundamental to the nursing discipline. I also love the family-friendly (relatively speaking) life-adaptable nature of nursing education. I'll just have to get the clinical experiences and the deeper natural science understanding after the fact! Those things I crave but not more than what the nursing route gives (not to mention the ability to still maintain family responsibilities).

Certainly there are exceptions to almost everything I've written, but they are just that--exceptions. Anyway, I hope this is somewhat helpful. Remember my warning: These are just MY PERSONAL OPINIONS based on MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCES and MY PERSONAL UNDERSTANDING at I CURRENTLY KNOW IT. :idea:

danceluver · May 15, 2012

@KurtNP: Are you a NP in the ER? Is FNP the way to go for that or will ANP or ACNP be ok too? Do they normally want the NPs to have ER experience as a RN before they will hire you or consider you for an NP position?

cayenne06, MSN, CNM · May 15, 2012

I struggled with this choice as well. I am 29 and have two kids, and ultimately decided to do APN, and maybe go back to medical school when I am 50 or so. You are still so young; if you really want to have a family in the next few years it might make sense to do a shorter degree and re-enter school when you are older.

hoosier guy · May 15, 2012

I struggled with this choice as well. I am 29 and have two kids, and ultimately decided to do APN, and maybe go back to medical school when I am 50 or so. You are still so young; if you really want to have a family in the next few years it might make sense to do a shorter degree and re-enter school when you are older.

MED School at 50!

Trauma Columnist · May 15, 2012

I know a surgeon who won a Grammy with Miami Sound Machine prior to going to med school at 50. Yep, can be done.

wowza · May 15, 2012

OP, I had people in my class who started medical school at age 44. We had multiple people in their 40s and tons in their 30s.

You will probably always wonder "what if" if you don't pull the trigger and go to medical school. From your post, it sounds like you wish you started that path in college. Don't waste more time.

Know that the time commitment is extreme. You will probably need to do 2 years of undergraduate courses just to fullfil the pre-recs for medical school. The most common set of pre recs include: a year of each chem/biology/physics/organic chemistry + a year of lab for each, + a year of english (you probably have this) and a year of college level math (ie no less than calculus).

Then you will have to take the MCAT. Add 4 years of medical school and at least 3 years of residency.

So from here, it is at least 9 years. Know though, that life doesn't stop during the education. There are plenty of women who have kids in medical school and residency.

Full disclosure: I am a doctor.

studentdrtobe · May 15, 2012

I struggled with this choice as well. I am 29 and have two kids, and ultimately decided to do APN, and maybe go back to medical school when I am 50 or so. You are still so young; if you really want to have a family in the next few years it might make sense to do a shorter degree and re-enter school when you are older.

I know a surgeon who won a Grammy with Miami Sound Machine prior to going to med school at 50. Yep, can be done.

It can be done, yes, but for the vast majority of people, it's going to be extremely difficult, if not downright impossible. Med school and residency aren't things you can do part-time or as a "hobby." I was in my 20s when I went through med school and, even as a youngster, it takes an incredible toll on your body. My sleep schedule is completely screwed up, I feel like I've aged far more than the 4 years it took to get through med school, etc.

At the age of 50, are you willing to put in the 7+ hours of studying every day, including weekends? Are you willing to miss holidays, weddings, birthdays, funerals, etc, because you either have to study or you can't take even an afternoon off during a rotation? Are you willing to come in to the clinic even when you're sick and just want to get some rest? Taking sick days is very frowned up, at least during the training stages of med school and residency; I remember, during one of my 3rd year rotations, one of the residents was walking around in the inpatient service with an IV attached and still rounding on his patients. Are you willing to struggle through a minimum of 7 years of this? Are you willing to work 80+ hrs/week again when you're 50 years old? Are you financially set to be able to pay off 100k+ in loans (and that's a conservative estimate, without taking interest into account)? Are you willing to wake up at 3:30 am everyday during your surgery rotation (typically 2-3 months long during 3rd year) to get to the hospital by 4:30 am so you can pre-round on your patients before the intern comes in? Are you willing to put in 16 hours/day (as an intern...longer, once you're PGY-2) and then go home and study afterward?

None of those things are exaggerated btw. Yes, you can do it when you're 50; we had someone who was 48 yrs old in my med school class. It's going to be a whole lot more difficult when you're older and have more wear-and-tear on your body, when you already have a family to take care of, etc. I'm not saying this to dissuade you from medicine; I'm just trying to give you a realistic idea of what it'll be like. Medicine can be incredibly rewarding, but it also take a lot from you. The highs are high and the lows are very, very low. Keep these in mind as you make your decision. If you're still relatively young (ex. less than 30 yrs of age) and have a strong interest in medicine, look into it now rather than telling yourself you'll do it when you're older. It'll be much harder to get into med school at 50, let alone get through it. Best of luck.

cayenne06, MSN, CNM · May 16, 2012

MED School at 50!

Why not?!?

studentdrtobe, I am a mother of two young children, one who has ataxia telangiectasia. I imagine when I am 50, if I decide I want to go back to school, that it will be darn easier than it is now. Obviously med school is not a "hobby" but many of us had kids when we were young, and our lives have followed a much more circuitous path than college-career-kids.

I am fairly certain that I will change careers in 20 years or so, and based upon my career and academic paths so far, medical school would be the obvious next step. There is no way I would put my young family through the hell of residency right now (not judging those who do), but when my kids are grown I will get the opportunity to be selfish again!

I hope to high heaven that I won't be too old and tired at FIFTY to change career paths.