Richard Titmus wrote in his concept of social policy about what he called the 'stranger'. He said the ultimate in social policy is to give to the stranger because you recognise that she or he is the same as you. You don't give to the stranger because they are hungry or because they are tired but because you recognise the problems of hunger and tiredness. In other words you see them as part of yourself and part of what you are responsible for. If you see them as 'the Other, you don't get that sense of responsibility.
John Rawls, who talks about justice, also uses a similar sort of model by saying that if you punish other people you always have to work on the basis that it might happen to you, which is another formulation in a slightly different format.
It is a fact in the USA that 64 million people do not have health insurance, which means there is a third world country within a country that boasts to the world that it is apparently the best.
No offense, but that just isn't true. America isn't the only place where immigrants can come and become millionaires (not that it's so common in the US either) and it isn't any more diverse than a lot of other countries.
My mother had five kids and adopted two more. She raised all seven of us from the time I was eleven on one teacher's salary. We have all had the opportunity to go to college (some of us have even completed our degrees). I have nothing but contempt for any one who does not have the intestinal fortitude to get off the couch, get an education, and get out of the situation that causes them to be uninsured. I am all for temporary welfare and for providing free health care to children but I am also in favor of making adults who cannot plan wait longer to receive their health care. Almost any one who lives in America and says that they cannot is not telling the truth. I agree with kmchugh that the fastest way to make a billion dollars disappear is to give it to the government. There will always be people in any organization that do the absolute least that they can. In addition, without a profit motive they are harder to get rid of.
My mother had five kids and adopted two more. She raised all seven of us from the time I was eleven on one teacher's salary. We have all had the opportunity to go to college (some of us have even completed our degrees). I have nothing but contempt for any one who does not have the intestinal fortitude to get off the couch, get an education, and get out of the situation that causes them to be uninsured. I am all for temporary welfare and for providing free health care to children but I am also in favor of making adults who cannot plan wait longer to receive their health care. Almost any one who lives in America and says that they cannot is not telling the truth. I agree with kmchugh that the fastest way to make a billion dollars disappear is to give it to the government. There will always be people in any organization that do the absolute least that they can. In addition, without a profit motive they are harder to get rid of.
...You need to get out more. Perhaps some volunteer work would help...
There are SOOOO many factors involved in why people don't have health care.
I'm sure your mother had some advantages that others didn't have, just by virtue of the fact that she was a teacher (i.e., I suspect that she wasn't crippled, probably isn't a "person of color", or mentally or emotionally challenged, and somehow was able to attend and finish college). Sure, you all went to college, when your mom is a teacher, it's clear that education was a priority in your household.
For certain, your mother raised you during a time when companies were ADDING to benefits (as well as governments ADDING to benefits) that were provided to employees. We are now living when companies have seen healthcare costs rise so much that they are DROPPING benefits...It's a different world out there.
No offense, but that just isn't true. America isn't the only place where immigrants can come and become millionaires (not that it's so common in the US either) and it isn't any more diverse than a lot of other countries.
...upon where you live, too. The "coasts" are much more ethnically diverse than the "middle states". In my neighborhood, English is by far NOT the language spoken by the majority...in fact, I don't think any language is...
Just for the sake of good conversation, how about mentioning some of these "other countries" that are so diverse, and that immigrants can come and become millionaires? I guess I'll have to pull out my issue of Fortune that has the 500 richest ppl...
I have to dissagree. At my hospital the uninsured are given the best care that the hospital has to offer. There is no test from labs to MRI's that they don't get. We have social workers crawling all over the place telling patients not to worry about ability to pay. Home health, transportation, dialysis, most medications, meals for family members visiting them in the hospital, and just about anything else you can think of is made available to those who can't pay. Our hospital provided approximately 1.3 billion dollars in care last year, 633 million was paid for by patients and their insureres. Who paid the rest? thats right the goverment in the form of medicaid.
I still have yet to see any difference in care except for maybe more services offered to those who can't pay.
Absolutely right. Did anyone see the Dateline segment on this? They took an illegal immigrant with no job and zero health insurance and followed her journey through the ER. She got everything she needed, X-rays, MRIs, medications, the works. No questions, no problems. Then they showed an American citizen that has payed for health insurance her entire life. They showed her having to fight to receive the medications prescribed, for PT, referals, etc. PLUS she had a ton of copays as well. I think it is disgusting.
...upon where you live, too. The "coasts" are much more ethnically diverse than the "middle states". In my neighborhood, English is by far NOT the language spoken by the majority...in fact, I don't think any language is...
Just for the sake of good conversation, how about mentioning some of these "other countries" that are so diverse, and that immigrants can come and become millionaires? I guess I'll have to pull out my issue of Fortune that has the 500 richest ppl...
NurseFirst
I do live on the coast (California). I don't find it more diverse than Toronto. So, how about Canada, the UK, Australia, etc. I'm not saying the US isn't diverse, simply that it isn't special in that regard. Also, does the Fortune magazine differentiate between immigrants and native born citizens?
...You need to get out more. Perhaps some volunteer work would help...
There are SOOOO many factors involved in why people don't have health care.
I'm sure your mother had some advantages that others didn't have, just by virtue of the fact that she was a teacher (i.e., I suspect that she wasn't crippled, probably isn't a "person of color", or mentally or emotionally challenged, and somehow was able to attend and finish college). Sure, you all went to college, when your mom is a teacher, it's clear that education was a priority in your household.
For certain, your mother raised you during a time when companies were ADDING to benefits (as well as governments ADDING to benefits) that were provided to employees. We are now living when companies have seen healthcare costs rise so much that they are DROPPING benefits...It's a different world out there.
NurseFirst
My husband is a teacher and advantages is something he did not have growing up. He's handicapped by the way (I assume thats what you meant by crippled).........as far as being a "person of color" what do you mean by that? I do know teachers that are "persons of color"... nurses too.....lawyers.....doctors.......so I don't know what the color of a persons skin has to do with it.
I just got off a 14 hour shift so I won't go too much into this benefits thing except to mention my father is on disability due to Parkinsons........to make a long story short he got to keep his insurance from work for a while but was told by his physician if he waited until his insurance lapped and medicare kicked in he would have more options.
Also......I had the pleasure to listen to my nephew all during my sons high school graduation brag about how all his college was paid for because his parents were "bumbs"......yep neither one held a job that paid more then 6 dollars and hour...(and both healthy emotionally and physically ...and not "persons of color")....I get to work lots of extra hours to pay for my kids education .
my grandfather on my mothers side was a drunken Indian and in three generations we have risen from poor half breed trash to productive citizens we did not do this by accident and any of the programs that we took advantage of were also available to persons of color. I do not believe that anyone is handicapped by anything other than attitude. Beethoven was deaf, Einstein was mentally handicapped and Stephen Hawkins is almost unable to speak. If you have the will there is always a way. It may cost you but you have to decide to accept the cost or accept the consequences of that decision.
"but in America, those who seek healthcare receive it, the poor tend to be non-compliant but not because of the lack of effort on the part of our social workers, just whatever it is going on with the patient, perhaps ignorance."-quoted from user Tommycher
I've been there. Lower middle-class, and non-insured. I was able to pay for the lower-cost plans, but was rejected because I am overweight (or was), and have a "mental illness" because I saw a therapist for a year after my mom tried to commit suicide and took anti-depressants. I now have pattela-femoral pain syndrome and can't perform my job without extreme pain (I am a coder [sitting makes it worse] while waiting to start school), which I was told would resolve easily with three weeks of P.T. Well, guess what, I am "non-compliant" because I can't afford the $800 it will cost to go to P.T. I am told that eventually I may end up in the E.R. or at least be on pain meds/ibuprofen until I can afford to go. This may also delay school, and has definitely derailed my weight loss (I've lost 50#, which, ironically led to this knee problem because I lost "too fast" and changed the way my body carries itself). So, while trying to stay healthy enough for insurance, other things popped up, and now I have yet another chronic problem which would have been easily fixed, but now is a major illness. And no, I'm not "ignorant" (I have a bachelor's degree in Human Development) I just can't financially be compliant. I fall in that unfortunate "makes too much money for medicaid, too little to pay for healthcare" category. So maybe you should walk a mile in my shoes.
On edit: I'm also still paying off a $900 ER charge for a kidney stone last year. Yes, I got the care, but it is a real burden to come up with that extra $50 or $100 every month when I can barely afford rent, food and phone.
Of course, I want everyone to have some form of health care, in this country. I think everyone would like to see that. Here, everyone gets treated, regardless of ability to pay. No one is turned out. 3 things, though, bother me about government healthcare. I know a few people personally, that complain bitterly about being unable to afford healthcare, and I can understand their point. I mean after the card payments for the new plasma tv, an upgraded computer, home entertainment center, and multiple car payments, who has money for healthcare? Government should pay for it, right? Now I am sure this doesn't apply to everyone. I know my Dad would not be living today, under government healthcare. With his multiple strokes in his 70s, he would be considered too old to be properly treated, as a young person would be treated. It would be considered a waste of money...taxpayer money, that is. Such is healthcare abroad, that everyone admires. Lastly, I would be very hesitant to have politicians decide my healthcare...who I see, when I see them, and what treatment I should receive. Already you can see the various "police" out now, searching for the wrongdoers...example: Food Police. I can see manditory exercise and weight control. Food checks. Alcohol, tobacco? Forget it. Pregnant? Better follow government guidelines carefully, or be denied full pediatric coverage. This is not fanciful dreaming. Special interest groups will have a field day. Government healthcare? No thanks. Based on your history of controlling things, I'll pass. I'd rather pay for it out of my pocket someway...even give up that new cellphone with all the trimmings. Lord knows, I'd hate to be a nurse in Canada or Europe.
Graysonret, that just doesn't happen. In Canada old people are not put out on ice floats to die because we want to save money to look after the young and no one is mandating any kind of lifestyle on us.
My husband has a colleague who travels to Europe frequently for work. He recently got acute appendicitis while in Vienna, Austria.
He had emergency surgery and was in the hospital for almost 2 weeks. He said the quality of care he received was much better than that in the U.S. He also says that the nurses were not rushed, and that he got the best care of his life. I found that interesting, as I had just read international nurse survey results which showed German and Austrian nurses to be among the happiest in their careers of any nurses in the world.
fergus51
6,620 Posts
No offense, but that just isn't true. America isn't the only place where immigrants can come and become millionaires (not that it's so common in the US either) and it isn't any more diverse than a lot of other countries.