PMHNP programs all going from MSN to DNP?

harmonizer · May 9, 2013

yes. correct. I do not see MSN for psych where I am now. I hope this will be the trend. It's a good thing though. My school is converting all NP to DNP starting 2015. Good luck!

myelin · May 9, 2013

My program is still MSN. While it will start offering the DNP in the future there are no plans to discontinue the MSN. I believe many programs are starting to adopt this idea, offering both the MSN and the DNP.

SycamoreGuy · May 9, 2013

All the schools in my area are still offering the MSN for all NP specialties. They have the DNP as a post-masters option but I haven't seen any BSN-DNP programs yet.

shannarini71 · May 9, 2013

Hi Harmonizer,

Why do you hope this will be the trend--will there be better compensation for the DNP? Do you think it will pay off for those of us who choose to go this route? MSN school is already so expensive I'm a little nervous about this change to DNP.

harmonizer · May 10, 2013

Hi Harmonizer,
Why do you hope this will be the trend--will there be better compensation for the DNP?.

Maybe or maybe not. But we really need to be on par with other allied health fields that require doctorate - (pharmacy, physical therapy, optometry) etc. I support eliminating MSN

mzaur · May 10, 2013

No, there will not be better compensation since insurance companies have no reason to pay PMHNPs more. People who support this trend are pretty clueless. This is a money grab, nothing more. It won't change anything if it happens. Better providers? That's arguable. DNP programs seem research focused. I support better training for NPs, but the DNP route is just a way to pump more money into academia, not to provide better training. I think what we need, if anything, is a funded residency program for a year or two after the MSN.

And yes, there are still plenty of MSN PMHNP programs out there (BC, MGH, UPenn, Columbia, UCSF, Seattle U, IUC, Vanderbilt, Yale, Rochester)

I really don't see MSN programs disappearing anytime soon. The only reason DNP programs are springing up left and right is due to demand. Many people are misinformed (including some practicing NPs I spoke with) who think that in 2015 you will need a DNP to become licensed. MSN programs will still exist since there are people who know better

FuturePsychNP · May 10, 2013

I am in a master's program for psych NP. Had a doctorate been required I'd have never gone back to nursing school (which I only did to become a psych NP). Although the school is opening a DNP program soon there is no current intent to evolve this program into a doctoral program. It's a rural state, and we're short on mental health providers that may prescribe as it is. Forcing us into a doctorate would only diminish that number.

I'm against the DNP, but that's another discussion.

harmonizer · May 11, 2013

I am in a master's program for psych NP. Had a doctorate been required I'd have never gone back to nursing school (which I only did to become a psych NP). Although the school is opening a DNP program soon there is no current intent to evolve this program into a doctoral program.

There is no excuse for nursing not to develop clinical doctorate. I don't know why so many of nurses are so negative about the change. Same things go for BSN & ASN. I know a number of MSNers going back to get DNP. I am all for DNP. It must be the requirement in 2015 like PharmD or DPT otherwise most people will opt for shorter route. I hope MSN will be eliminated soon. Who knows? MSN may linger around forever, just like ASN. It will make a different in salary. Graduates with higher debt load will demand higher salary, hence higher salary for all.

FuturePsychNP · May 11, 2013

There is no excuse for nursing not to develop clinical doctorate. I don't know why so many of nurses are so negative about the change. Same things go for BSN & ASN. I know a number of MSNers going back to get DNP. I am all for DNP. It must be the requirement in 2015 like PharmD or DPT otherwise most people will opt for shorter route. I hope MSN will be eliminated soon. Who knows? MSN may linger around forever, just like ASN. It will make a different in salary. Graduates with higher debt load will demand higher salary, hence higher salary for all.

The excuse is that it's totally unnessary. Hours in the master's level NP programs are already wasted. My education and degrees are not limited to nursing which I state because I fully support being educated, but I contend that nine hours (or 3 classes) of my master's program were an absolute waste of time and could've been supplemented instead with the biomedical knowledge I need as a NP rather than nursing's attempt to "professionalize" itself through theory, and research courses ad nauseum.

The NP field was designed to make healthcare more accessible and part of that is a reduction in cost. Driving up salaries, due to a required yet unnecessary doctorate is going to drive up costs. My own doctor's group, for example, doesn't accept ANY Medicaid patients because the reimbursement is not deemed to be worth their time. I'm content with my expected NP salary which is a little over 100k in this area, and we don't have a high cost of living either. In comparison, the average RN makes about 38-41k annually.

I'm all for mandatory BSN for RNs and MSN for NPs, and the LPNs can have the associate's degree.

If you'll look at a Pharm.D. it's actually a six year degree with two obligatory years of prereqs followed by four years of pharmacy school which awards the doctor of pharmacy degree. Many of these pharmacists don't have anything but a doctorate, and a doctorate traditionally is awared as a graduate degree to someone who holds (or obtains along the way) a bachelor's degree (or higher). At a local school here, the first two years of pharmacy courses are actually labeled with junior level and senior level college course numbers (3,000s and 4,000s).

There is a growing movement in medicine to reduce the length of their academic preparation and even residency periods. Research it, and you'll see. Some have found that much of what they do is unnecessary particularly to primary care providers. No, more education and exposure is never bad, but we're talking about creating a professional not enlightening a soul.

mzaur · May 12, 2013

It will make a different in salary. Graduates with higher debt load will demand higher salary, hence higher salary for all.

The amount of debt load for students of all professions has increased exponentially since the 80s, yet real wages have remained the same. There is no correlation between debt load and salary.

NPAlby · May 14, 2013

I'm all for the DNP. I'm a nerd and love school. Here's the BUT... I dont believe in a doctorate program just for the sake of a doctorate. If I'm investing money, time and energy there better be a return. It seems like the schools just found a way to make more money off the nursing world.