Please provide insight into nationalized health care.

ZippyGBR, BSN, RN · Mar 19, 2009

as for council tax being 'ridiculous' price up each individual aspect ofthe service offered by local authorities and then tell me it's ridiculous - even if you are paying 20- 40 gbp / week ...

exactly how much a year would it cost to have a 240 l bin collected every week ?

what's the real price of library membership?

the UK as a much more urbanised population has a lot of council mantained roads and footpaths etc ... also don't forget that the road netwrok is either council maintained or if it;s a strategic route managed by theHighways agency , no intermediate level provision even in the devolved areas.

we'll not even mention subsidised public transport where it is socially or environmentally necessary becasue that's just another messed up communist thing that every other civilised nation in the world does ...

so carolina - how much are you paying for your health insurance ? and would that health insurance cover you for 'pre existing conditions' or would like a proprtion of Americans you be forced to remain with the same employer if you developed a chronic health problem and wished to remain insured ?

in terms of your statements about Cancer treatment , as has been repeatedly stated if you have a clinical need for admission you will be admitted , the two week rule applies to anything the referring practitioner considers poses a riskof being caused by cancer.

cariad · Mar 19, 2009

after working in both systems and being a brit who never had to pay a penny for health care until i came to the states, i think i have an insight as to how they both work, compsratively, i pay the same out of my wages for taxes, health cover etc as i did in the uk, the difference in the usa is that when you do become ill, and you cannot work and you have no income and you depend on your spouse to work and support you, the big difference is that whenever the person with health problems becomes ill, we have ongoing bills, unlike the uk, where there are no bills, each time we have a hospital admission, see a doctor or a consultant we pay, each month we pay around $250 for prescriptions, health insurance in the usa does not mean that they are paying all the bills when you become ill. the stress of having no money to pay the bills exacerbates some peoples health, and of course i do know some people who have lost everything because of medical bills, and i mean their homes and lifestyles because they become ill and cannot afford the healthcare, because dont forget when you lose your job you lose you health insurance coverage. my dh and i have lived in both systems and as i repeatedly say there is good and bad in both systems, there is no point americans saying our system is better when they have never lived in the uk, or the brits saying that it is better of they nave never experienced the us, and i mean being ill and needing the treatment for an ongoing illness, not just a quick visit to the doctor occasionally.

Billy Shears · Mar 20, 2009

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/7954156.stm

Birmingham Children's Hospital

Birmingham is not a 'relative backwater', neither is Stafford for that matter. Nurses are leaving in droves from North Staffs Teaching Hospital A&E dept.

cariad · Mar 21, 2009

billy shears- are you posting these links to bad health care in the uk as some sort of "look how bad the health care is in the uk". because i could post many more links to bad health care in the us. if you have seen the film sicko then you will know what i mean, as patient i could relate bad experiences, when i went for right shoulder surgery i woke up with abrasions on my left cornea, my dh went for a year with a misdiagnosed cervical bone compressing his spinal column, my dh had a major drug error occur, which could have blocked his brand new cardiac stents, and these are just personal experiences, so post as many links as you like, it still doesnt make either system better than the other.

flightnurse2b, LPN · Mar 21, 2009

You folks have really provided some good information. I do think we're getting distorted images about your system.
Our system has some real problems. The political furor has arisen because there are (according to the Democrat party) "45 million uninsured Americans". Well, yeah... about 13 - 15 of these Americans aren't Americans. They're here illegally. (On my unit about 10% of my patients speak no English and have no familly members who can.) Most of the other Americans finance their middle class life-style by not paying for health insurance. They've made a choice. Buy a brand new recreational vehicle, or pay health premiums... hmm... guess which one they choose?
About half the patients on the neuroscience unit where I work are uninsured. Because these people get first rate care and don't pay for it, I pay for it through my state taxes (if they are qualified to be put on Medicaid) or by huge hospital bills if I have to be admitted.
It's frustrating. Does the UK have anything like our Departments of Motor Vehicles? It's a running joke that no matter what state you live in, you have to deal with this immensely tedious, inefficient bureaucracy. That's what Americans fear our health care would be like if we become a single payer system.

your statement is not only erroneous, but hurtful.

there are people who fall through the cracks. hardworking, tax paying, english speaking american citizens, who for one reason or another are under or uninsured by no choice of their own.

and right now, one of them is me.

i have actually resorted to selling things on ebay to pay for my health insurance premiums r/t my prexisiting.

i'm a nurse. i work my rear end off and i don't get govt assist or qualify for medicare. i'm currently insured and my insurance ends the day i move. since i'm moving, so i'm between jobs. and if i let my coverage lapse for 60 days (and i am not eligible for COBRA due to location restrictions), i wait one year for coverage with another group plan. so therefore, i pay $500 a month that doesn't cover anything until i pay $2500 out of pocket and then i get coverage at 50%.

i'm two months pregnant.

think twice before you judge all who are under/uninsured.

you might find that some of your own are the ones in need.

Billy Shears · Mar 21, 2009

Cariad,

I've offered two insights, they are not personal experiences or films.

I haven't mentioned the US Healthcare system, I am not comparing.

The OP wants some insights into Nationalised Healthcare.

cariad · Mar 21, 2009

it really is hard to give insights to either system as they are both open to good and bad care. i have been going to physical therapy since last august after my shoulder surgery, it normally costs me about $20 a visit, my part of the insurance coverage that i have to pay, just got a bill for over $200 and when i asked why, its because its the start of a new year and you have to pay bigger out of pocket expenses, and thats just for 5 visits, thats the biggest difference for me between the 2 countries, that if you do have to have any kind of medical treatment, even with good health care insurance, it costs money, and quite a lot of it. theres always an ongoing fear for getting sick, because it can cost you money, cost you your job, if you are sick for longer than 12 weeks, and cost you everything if you lose your job and your medical cover, those kind of things dont happen everyday in the uk but they do happen here.

misswoosie · Mar 24, 2009

i agree that the nhs is not without its problems, but then have worked both sides of the atlantic to be able to compare as a nurse and as a patient and a dh who has continuing health problems. but state of the art equipment and being able to have every test known to man doesnt make the american system better, just different, the point i was making was that all uk workers pay into the system but americans can choose not to pay even when working and then get the same health care as everyone else, but normal everyday working people like nurses, still pay into the system and still get bills for our care, something that doesnt happen in the uk. my dh has cardiac problems which were probably exacerbated by worrying about how to pay medical bills after a car crash, and hasnt been able to get a penny from anywhere since then, something else that doesnt happen in the uk. like i always say, good and bad both sides of the pond.

if people who work and don't pay insurance premiums can get the same care as those who do,then why do people pay for insurance? it doesn't seem to make sense but maybe i have it wrong.

also-i was told by a hospital i was interviewed at that they aren't allowed to present the patient with a bill if they have no insurance.they are a not for profit facility.i didn't really understand it-does it make any sense!

i think maybe the biggest difference between usa and uk is staffing levels,cleanliness,privacy and facilities,although for example not having an mri scanner and only having 1 ct scanner has to impact on care.

also smaller hospitals over here will def not have the same sort of facilities as in the us and therefore we have a post (zip) code lottery of care.

for example, not all hospitals will offer 24hr ct scanning and therefore cannot offer 24 hr thrombolysis for stroke,although a stroke patient will still be taken to the nearest hospital,regardless of the availability of thrombolysis.

also only the large,regional cardiac centres will offer pci for mi-so patients have to be transferred to another hospital maybe an hour away for the procedure.

i read somewhere that the door to pci average time in the usa was around 38 minutes- dream on!

cariad · Mar 25, 2009

told you the american system is confusing, the people who dont pay are the ones with nothing,,,,,no homes no car no money no work, if i chose not to pay my medical bills insured or not then they would come after me and take away everything i owned and leave me destitute, and i work in a small hospital and although we have equipment it is not always manned, our sister hospital is trauma level one which means they have 24 hour care for everything as they take all the acute care and traumas. yes some things are better, i always say that, but the bills for medical care are not better for anyone, well except if you have so much money that bills dont matter. but to joe public who work its only a good system if you can stay fit and stay free from illness, dont forget without a job, you dont have medical insurance.

and any hospital will hunt you down and make you pay, whether not for profit or not, and thats from experience.

misswoosie · Mar 25, 2009

sorry,this was your statement a few posts back

but americans can choose not to pay even when working and then get the same health care as everyone else

this was what i was asking for qualification on,that i didn't understand

also i may be wrong,but i thought that unfortunately you had been misadvised with your car insurance and you didn't have cover for non-insured .is that correct or was that someone else? it must have been awful.

i guess there are small hospitals and small hospitals and it depends on the level,but the small hospital (400 beds) i was talking about had neurosurgery,cardiac surgery and has a 30min door to pci time and average time for door to scan for stroke patients was 15mins.

there is little likelyhood that any "small" hospital in the uk would offer that.here we are downgrading small hospitals and centralising services more amd more and some people are 70-80 miles from anymedically staffed emergency department, let alone one with neuro/pci/major trauma.

at our local hospital and 2 others within the same trust there are only midwifery led maternity units and if an emergency caesarian is needed they have to transport patient in an ambulance to a hospital 10 miles away.

also when people talk about private hospitals in the uk for elective surgery,then that may be fine if you have insurance or can pay,but personally i wouldn't be happy having open heart at a hospital that has no facility to crack a chest out of hours if a graft pops and no anaesthetist on call.speaking to nurses who work in the private hospitals they are often just as understaffed as the nhs ones and don't have the back up if things go wrong.

cariad · Apr 1, 2009

the american health system is very hard to understand, but where i work and everywhere eles, you can choose to work without paying for benefits, usually because your other half carries the cover, but the pay is then higher, some nurses choose to earn the higher pay, and pay for their own cover, but some people choose to work and dont pay for medical cover and hope they dont get sick, or do a deal with the hospital and have a cheaper bill for cash if they do.

as for the car accident and following health issues that we have had, we did have good cover, as madwife had already had a car crash and advised us to take extra cover which we did, because i was a travel nurse at the time, the medical cover wasnt very good, we paid for 30% of most bills, and even more for physical therapy, it was 50% and limited to how many times we could use them. then when i was unable to work because of having surgery the insurance cover that we had to pay was astronomical, (called cobra), the co-pay for my surgery was $1,000 which i had to pay or they wouldnt operate, and we are still paying bills, eventually our car insurance company will pay us an amount of money, but it wont be a huge amount and we have to pay back the insurance compnies for any medical bills that they have paid, but none of it will compensate for me having a bad arm, that is not fully recovered after 2 surgeries, or for dh's loss of a normal life. i more or less have to do most things in the house due to his lack of mobility and fatigue, and thats not including the chest pains and flutters that he continues to get. we are trying to get on with our lives as best as we can, theres nothing we can do to change anything, although dh is going to have his lumbar spine operated on this year some time. we now have good medical cover, but we still have to pay monthly prescriptions and any bills that come from everywhere, the latest one is from the radiologist who read the stress tests that he had done, and thats another $264.