Pinoy nurses: Canada's program 'exploitative'

suzanne4, RN · Oct 22, 2008

Thanks for posting.

But one is never going to see a reciprocity agreement between two countries when one of them will not permit those from any other country to get licensed there.

The US is a direct neighbor to Canada and Americans have to write the CRNE exam.

If a Canadian wishes to work in the US, then they must write and pass the NCLEX exam. When you speak of reciprocity, it has to do with licensure, one also will need to pass the language exam as well.

Nurses that meet the licensing requirements of the different provinces in Canada are given permission to attempt the CRNE exam, they have three chances.

for those that have gone over to Canada in a role of less than working as an RN, then they most definitely know the consequences. Same thing for those that go to the UK as care-givers, knowing full well in advance that the time will not count as RN experience nor will it permit them to remain there when the contract is over and the visa expires.

For anyone to think that they are automatically get landed immigrant status in any country for working as a care-giver, really needs to think again as to what they are going to actually be doing. When one has a full four year degree, if they are willing to go and work as a maid, then this is what they think of their skills; as far as I am concerned, it should never be acceptable behavior. As long as one is willing to do it, then it is going to continue.

Fiona59 · Oct 23, 2008

This is a very old story.

The workers in question KNEW that they were not coming to Canada to work in the nursing profession. It was route they decided to take to earn a living and to leave their homeland.

The workers in question have been quite vocal over the years demanding the "right" to work as nurses in Canada. However, it must be noted that they also voiced the opinion that their credentials should be accepted verbatim and without further upgrading of their skills or language abilities.

The 1990s were a hard decade financially for many Canadian nurses due to provincial funding cutbacks of health care resulting in many, many Canadian educated nurses being unemployed or having their hours reduced to fewer than 2 shifts per week. Heck, I remember buying underwear in LaSenza from a woman who told me she was an RN who had been laid off due to the cutbacks in my province.

rn4ever? · Oct 24, 2008

People who apply as caregivers in Canada know what they are getting into. They have a thorough process and the paperwork clearly states what it's all about. You don't necessarily have to be a Nurse to be a caregiver. The qualifications can be found all over the internet. But some Filipino nurses think that they could use it as a "stepping stone" to become a Canadian immigrant and then Canadian Citizen later on, and perhaps become a Canadian RN later on. But then, before all these happen, they become live-in caregivers first like what they applied for. And then they realize that although they graduated with a BSN degree, they work as caregivers and obviously are not paid an RN rate. And then some would feel bad, and they want to stop the live-in caregiver program altogether. But one has to realize that a BSN degree alone in Canada doesn't make you an RN in Canada instantly---you have to pass their licensure exam as an RN if you want to be a nurse. Also, if you don't want to be a caregiver in the first place, don't apply for it. But instead, apply as an RN and complete the requirements as an RN.

jennygump · Oct 25, 2008

Warn all your friends (esp. those who are nurses) not to fall into the trap of going to Canada under this "live-in caregiver" program.

Inform your friends that this program is NOT a stepping stone to RN work. In fact it WILL make your career move to become an RN here in Canada even LONGER. The college of reg nurses will NOT count your work as caregiver as RN experience.

Do not allow yourselves to be exploited. Just say NO.

IMO a better career move would be to go to a country where you will have the opportunity to be recognized as an RN. You will not be happy as a caregiver. Every waking day will suck, and you will wish you had never left home. But by the time you realize your mistake you had spent so much already, maybe even borrowed money, and you will be stuck for years laboring in a job you dislike. Warn your friends!

Fiona59 · Oct 27, 2008

How are people who read the contracts, accept the conditions and accept the job exploited? They had plenty of chances to say NO but chose to take this route to leave the Phillipines.

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Oct 28, 2008

How are people who read the contracts, accept the conditions and accept the job exploited? They had plenty of chances to say NO but chose to take this route to leave the Phillipines.

What I find alarming, the same people who can't read a contract or find someone to read it and understand it feel qualified to be a RN. Being a nurse is all about being an advocate for your patient, but how can one be a patient advocate when you can't advocate for yourself.

jennygump · Oct 29, 2008

Fiona:

You raise a good point. Can a person who understood what she was getting into be exploited? My answer is, I think in some circumstances Yes.

I do not pretend to know all the reasons why some professionals become "nannies" in Canada; but I suspect the main reason is this - they need the money. Maybe they are mothers who need to support a family. Or maybe a loved one was gravel ill, and she had no choice but to work overseas - even as a nanny.

In the Philippines, there are many rich but also many poor people; rich nurses and poor nurses. And many of those who are poor who had some tough luck in the Philippines, have no choice but take jobs that are demeaning for the survival of their families. They do not have the luxury to say "NO". They do not have the luxury of waiting for a better deal.

gingerbreadman0214 · Oct 29, 2008

In the Philippines, there are many rich but also many poor people; rich nurses and poor nurses. And many of those who are poor who had some tough luck in the Philippines, have no choice but take jobs that are demeaning for the survival of their families. They do not have the luxury to say "NO". They do not have the luxury of waiting for a better deal.

Who's to blame, the Philippine government and its officials or the Filipino citizens? Sorry. Can't help it. The question's there. It's the same for all struggling states, though. But, you don't have to answer that. It'll just give you a headache. :banghead: Life is short, indeed. Do what you gotta do...but be careful & considerate. Informed decisions and a sense of accountability.

Take care & Godbless:cool:

mcruz924 · Nov 2, 2008

hi, im one those RNs who is currently being offered a work as a caregiver in calgary and i was referred to this thread my suzanne4.

is experience as a registered nurse here in the philippines a requirement before taking the CRNE even if i already have a working visa? what else do i need to know before applying for CRNE?

i just want to know the possible consequences if ever id decide to take the job so all your answers and opinions will be greatly appreciated! thanks everyone!

woknblues · Nov 2, 2008

I am not calling anyone a liar, but I really can hardly believe that there are slaves in Canada. Just to add some points. I mildly suspect people are counting all 24 hours/day in their "calculations" reasoning that they are "at their place of work" during that time.

I have lived and worked in Canada for years, in "not so majestic modes of employ" for the record.

Canada might very well have the most protective employment standards in the entire world. All of the standards of employment apply to every person working in Canada, citizen or not. Contractual obligations may not supersede labor (or labour, as they say) laws. In other words, a would be employer cannot contractually obligate someone to perform a duty that is not in congruence with the law of the land. Canada has a minimum wage set by each province, related to costs of living. All workers are protected and entitled to it. (Quebec MAY be the exception here)

For your consideration:

http://www.labour.gov.bc.ca/esb/domestics/obligations.htm

http://www.labour.gov.bc.ca/esb/facshts/domestic.htm

http://www.labour.gov.bc.ca/esb/domestics/faq.htm

http://www.labour.gov.bc.ca/esb/domestics/brochure.htm

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/faq/work/caregiver-faq02.asp

http://www.cic.gc.ca/ENGLISH/information/faq/work/caregiver-faq12.asp

http://www.cic.gc.ca/ENGLISH/information/faq/work/caregiver-faq10.asp

http://www.cic.gc.ca/ENGLISH/information/faq/work/caregiver-faq05.asp

http://www.cic.gc.ca/ENGLISH/information/faq/work/caregiver-faq03.asp

I strongly suggest the following above websites for guidance if you are experiencing any issues such as those mentioned.

OTOH, if you are just unhappy working as a care giver, then you really should not have applied for any position other than what you have gone to school and trained as.

Also, if you can avoid it, NEVER GO THROUGH A 3rd PARTY (recruiter) for employment to places like Canada or the US. You are likely wasting your money.

Best of luck.

jennygump · Nov 2, 2008

mcruz924,

In my opinion, going to Canada under the caregiver program is a bad deal if you are a Filipino RN. It is a good deal if you are kind but slow-in-the-head, generous but unskilled. It is a career advancement for nannies in Hong Kong. For a RN it is a demeaning role. For heaven's sake don't do it! But that's just my opinion.

If you do become a caregiver in Canada:

1) Low pay

Very low wages - you might even fall below the poverty line. In the Philippines you were probably middle class, but now in Canada you will slide down to the lower income bracket. The pay is so low you will have hardly enough for your own survival.

2) Caregiver is not counted as RN work

In order to become a RN in Canada you need to complete a certain number of hours of practice (either as a RN or student nurse) within the last five years. Since you were not working as an RN or student nurse you will not meet the requirements of the province. If the province follows this guideline then you should not be allowed to write the CRNE nor be qualified to claim "Graduate nurse" status. As a result: before you can write the CRNE they will ask you to study again and this will take as much as 3 years. A bad move on your part. What you thought was a short route is now the long, painful, expensive, and demeaning road.

3) You will lose your soul

As a RN: you used to care for patients, administer meds, do client teaching, counsel families, assist with operations, deliver babies, handled vaccination, managed blood transfusion, and you were treated with respect. You understood physiology, pathophysiology, and various treatment modalities. You assessed patients, and your clinical opinion was valued. Your work was meaningful. You woke up each day with dignity.

As a caregiver: your attention is called because you missed a spot mopping the floor.

4) You might become bitter

After 10 years in jobs that are way below what you trained for you might become bitter. By then the economy would have picked up and all your peers are now sought after abroad as RN's. But how can you get licensed in other countries (e.g. USA) when you can't even get licensed in your new place of residence - Canada? A bad bad move on your part. Your peers are now nurse practitioners while you are stuck in a job cleaning the toilet.

Finally, just know that when you go abroad you carry with you the image of our country and our profession.